| [ Total Views: 2399 | Total Replies: 34 | Thread Id: 89050 ] |
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 tweety
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| posted on March 2nd, 2011 at 10:21 PM |
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1916 auto twin spark the go?
If I dont do a conversion to subi, would twin spark heads along wiht other mods be suitable for an automatic box. Would it give more low down
torque?
what other mods would you recommend?
The motor has done 26.000kms.
The standard exhaust will be replaced. I have EI flame thrower.
you views appreciated.
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waveman1500
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| posted on March 2nd, 2011 at 10:37 PM |
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What's the auto box from? Is it a Type 3 or Kombi auto, or is it the old Beetle semi-auto stick shift? I wouldn't really want to put too much power
through any of them to be honest, although a trike is pretty light so you probably shouldn't break a transmission in good condition.
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johny rotten
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| posted on March 2nd, 2011 at 10:38 PM |
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that trike looks different 
Get some decent high flow heads, along with a proper balance and blue print
remove the carbys and the distributer and run EFI
That way you will have very good torque and some fuel economy
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tweety
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| posted on March 3rd, 2011 at 08:25 AM |
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Thanks guys.
The auto is I beleive a type 3 from a fastie or similar fully automatic not semi.
Although running ok I think it is down on power so 100hp would likely give me a surprised whack in the back performance that would satisfy.
Had Solex's originally and when the webers went on it had a good increase in mid range acceleration. I tow a camper so more poower is wanted.
The eFI wasnt considered so will read up on it. What type do you recommend? How would it run without a distributor?
An alternative engine might be an option but I think I would go that way if the auto could be changed to a 4 speed. Pity the diff cant be turned uside
down or CW swapped to the other side like it can be done with manuals (Subarugears).
The auto is in great operating condition especially after I found out how to adjust the vacuum solonoid valve.
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Sides
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| posted on March 3rd, 2011 at 08:58 AM |
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You tow a CAMPER with a trike !?!?!
Man I want to see pics of that !!!
Also a simple way of getting a bit of a boost could be a decent merged exhaust system. I know the twin cannons are "the look", but I've never heard
good things about 'em performance wise...
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tweety
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| posted on March 3rd, 2011 at 10:33 AM |
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For those interested, a VW trike frame is capable of towing a gross of around 300 kgms. Anymore and the frame could twist. A max tow ball weight of
around 25-30 kgms. Soem tow heavier loads without a problem but it isnt advisable. Trikes, up to 6 feet wide can tow a camper as wide as that but a
motorcycle is limited to 120cm. Trikes are really stable, you cant flip them, they can spin off like a formula one but it would have to be a greasy
surface. Few bikes outhandle them around corners. When they scrape pegs I'm on the gas. You can see why I want a bit more power to accelerate out of
those corners better using the restriction of the 3 speed auto.
The outback camper above weighs 240kgm empty. some trikers go for fibreglass units like Elite, but like hard floor light weight campers storage is a
problem. The outback is cheap at under $5,000 and has a huge sotrage area under the queen size bed.
Towing anything means there is less down force with the front wheel onto the road and therefore grip is lessened and can be dangerous if not aware of
it. This is particularly so if you have a all wheel braking system common on most trikes eg foot brake and all three wheeel brake. Without a seperate
front brake you have no choice to sleect what wheels brake resulting in the odd incident of the front wheel locking up on loose surfaces that can
cause loss of control. It occured to our trike in tassy last December and we fishtailed down a steep tarred incline- luckily we saved it. A seperate
front hand brake to the front wheel would not ahve caused that.
I will update the exhaust but can anyone tell me how a merged exhaust system could be beneficial to a better flowing twin seperate system? I was
hoping I could get better performance with a twin system but better air flow than these cannons?
Appreciate your time.
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ian.mezz
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| posted on March 3rd, 2011 at 11:07 AM |
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we dyno a new twin plug stan base motor it had 65HP
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Joel
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| posted on March 3rd, 2011 at 11:08 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by johny rotten
that trike looks different
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It's a bontrike like the 100s of others just with a canopy on it.
The main ones that spin out in the wet are the idiots that put fat tyres on the front.
Also boring the holes bigger in the exhausts makes a huge difference, dads are opened up to about 40mm and makes a noticable difference.
A mate went 60mm on his but it ended up really loud and blappy, had to put silencers in them to pass his noise test.
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vlad01
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| posted on March 3rd, 2011 at 11:14 AM |
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how is that twin plug? the dizzy is a standard type not twin type. also there appears to be only one set of ignition leads.
There should be 10 leads on twin plug using a dizzy or 8 leads on DF type ignition.
 
71 notchback,
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Joel
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| posted on March 3rd, 2011 at 11:31 AM |
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The OP is asking if its a worthwhile upgrade.
The few I've spoken to about it say its alot of $$ for not a real lot of gain.
It wasn't really a winner with Nissans CA20 engines either and that was a factory research and engineered design
Bad memories of keeping my ex's TRX alive.
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vassy66T1
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| posted on March 3rd, 2011 at 12:28 PM |
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What heads and cam are you running on it currently?
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tweety
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| posted on March 3rd, 2011 at 09:15 PM |
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Thanks again, I love it when you get different views and ideas...brainsotrming is good.
The motor is standard as delivered by Panther except for the webers and the heads were shaved but thats a long story. Standard cam.
I think the opening up of the exhaust tips has merit, a no cost attempt to get a few horses.
For your interest guys in Jan 2011 ADR's were changed to do away with trike maximum weight of 450 kgms. There will be a flood of trikes entering the
market. Touroz of Qld will import the German REWACO that has a Ford Focus motor with turbo option (and a large boot) for example. V8 trikes will hit
our shores. Bike trike manufacturers converting Gold Wings etc wont be concerned about the limit anymore- a major issue of old.
My roof is Vicroads approved as an accessory. It doesnt effect the structure of the chassis and detatches with two bolts.
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Joel
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| posted on March 4th, 2011 at 09:53 AM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by tweety
webers and the heads were shaved but thats a long story. Standard cam.
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There's your first problem, IDFs and bumped up CR are not gonna play nice with a stock cam.
Heres what dads canons are bored out to, it's about 40mm
I wouldnt go much bigger, a mate did with his and with only a 1600 brand new crate engine running kadrons it was too noisy and wouldn't pass the
sound tests, had to put silencers in them.
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vassy66T1
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| posted on March 4th, 2011 at 10:16 AM |
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The cam, heads, carbs and compression ratio (the combination of those) is what will make it right but that is all $ (a few 1000 of them I would say
from personal experience)
Might have to consider how badly that bit extra is needed.
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tweety
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| posted on March 4th, 2011 at 04:51 PM |
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| Quote: |
Might have to consider how badly that bit extra is needed.
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And therein lies the usual dilemma. So what are the alternatives. As you can see from the roof, I tend to think outside the square with everything I
do. Occasionally I pull it off, like the roof...scepticism with some in my trike club but clearly haield as a success when finished. So with this
topic- the common one in these dubber pages I ask this-
What engines are likely to be a good selection to power this trike bearing in mind the following:
1. it has a type 3 auto 3 speed box and vW transaxle
2. one would prefer a max torque output 2700-3200 rpm
3. max power at about 4000-5000 rpm
4. lightweight we know the VW engine weighs about 105kgms, anymore and it could compromise the balance of the trike
5. must be more economical than what it is now
6. if we are going to doa conversion might as well be modern bUT not fly by wire modern
So I have a suggestion. Victory! The Victory motorcycle is American and its new 1730cc V twin engine from the Hammer model is a pearler. It doesnt
vibrate, has max torque (huge) of 15.6 kgm-m(152 nm) at 2900 rpm, max power at 97 hp @ 5,000 rpm.
If we put aside the adapter plate problem what we have here is a very nice looking V-twin engine that is:
air cooled- could have issues here and it poses a question that a large capacity water cooled engine (Kawasaki Vulcan) would eb more suitable
oil cooled as well so maybe there is a case for a slightly larger oil radiator for this trike purpose
Will be favourable for a rear engined trike weight wise, the whole hammer motorcycle weighs only 303 kgms, motor alone- dunno yet. and the weigh bias
is good. The trike weighs 520kgms
The Hammer engine is fuel injection
Fuel economy of the bike is 38mpg...in the trike with auto I'd hope for more than 28mpg.
Sheramn adapters makes many adapters for VW transaxles but not bike to VW. so that might be an issue. Also the alternator. The bike has a 38amp one
and it would be, I assume, on the nearside of the bike that would bolt up to the bell housing. I wouldnt attempt the conversion so I'd leave that to
the engineer.
Diesel is another alternative bUT Big BUT- weight. The polo 3 cylinder from Europe is a possibility, likely would need all alloy donk.
What do you think?
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Joel
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| posted on March 4th, 2011 at 05:46 PM |
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Just so you're aware Rewaco did make a batch of Harley V-twin powered triikes, Karsten imported a couple here but they were overheating in aus
conditions.
Soon as you take a bike engine designed to be at the front in one orientation and turn it 90 degrees and put it at the back behind everything they
cook nicely.
I've been caught in the middle of the trike scene for along time.
Dads had his for 14 years now, its one of the original batch of rewaco trikes imported from germany and a bunch of blokes around here wanted to build
some replicas so they used dads for a template and then me being in vw circles I was stuck supplying engines and gearboxes and bugs for the
chassis.
They did try using Suzuki GTi motors but they ended up handling like buckets of shit
soon as you chuck a top heavy OHC/DOHC inline engine in they lose that center of gravity that makes them stick like shit to a blanket.
I'm trying to convince dad to put an EJ20 engine in his, keep the boxer engine if you want to maintain that handling.
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tweety
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| posted on March 4th, 2011 at 07:48 PM |
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Great advice Joel thanks.
Yes it was Scorpion trikes that uses the Suzuki GTI engine. Well that narrows things down a bit eh. To
A water cooled large cruiser V-twin bike engine with radiator at the front (they're small enough) or at the side or rear with fan. Am aware of
Harley's being mated to the VW - the ones I've seen on the net are sporty bodies that allow the top half of the engine to be raised above the body.
Even so I've heard they still get hot in particular if towing a camper. So water cooled bike engine or no bike engine at all. And we wont go to the
cost!!!
There are now two rEwaco's here in Oz. The one you refer is based in cairns and due to threats all around with litigation I wont comment on them.
The original Rewaco trikes company also wont associate themselves with the Cairns mob. But rewaco Germany have set up a new company in Brisbane called
Touroz trikes- google them and be impressed. Adn a buyer would get their trike actually delivered!
But thanks again for the info about inline 4's and their effect on the handling. I wouldnt want that to occur. I have 55 kgms downforce on the
frotn wheel, just right. Oz trikes are a lot less. Some trikes need lead to weigh them down.
So its
1. Subi,
2.water cooled bike ,
3.Modify the 1916 to 2331, fuel injection (what sort?) better flowing exhaust.
4. Or 3 cylinder POLO diesel from Germany. Now that would get the best mileage, enough power, less overhang of weight on the tail than an inline 4.
But if I could get one and are they cast iron block or alloy? more googling.
There's one here on this site among the many beetle pics of conversions
http://www.gerrelt.nl/other-conversions.html
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 matberry
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| posted on March 4th, 2011 at 08:43 PM |
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Sorry to be biased, but big VW is light, easy, powerful and the most torque of any n/a engine.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on March 4th, 2011 at 08:48 PM |
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cummins diesel maybe ??
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tweety
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| posted on March 4th, 2011 at 09:14 PM |
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Biased is Good! Matberry- it means you beleive in what you know.
The Volkzone thread is not available on the olo 3 cylinder diesel in a bug. It fits well though
conversionsrnrnhttp://www.gerrelt.nl/other-conversions.html
But in reality I'm likely to keep the donk I have and spend some hard earned along the track. I'm just not happy buying so much fuel with mediocre
performance...its a sad case getting 950kms out of a rapid Hyundai i30 turbo diesel and 350kms out of the trike for same cost.
If so bearing in mind its an auto and I'm not a rev head, I like my motors to last....how about your own personal list of mods? It has 40 twin webers
and pin holes for exhausts that we can assume will be enlarged.
Lets start with 2331cc or do we keep it at 1916? It has EI already.
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matberry
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| posted on March 4th, 2011 at 09:26 PM |
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Hp is in the heads but there's no substitute for cubic inches (or cc's) esp when it comes to torque.
So if you only want to spend a bit, put some hotup heads on your 1915, and get a real exhaust system, or if you have more $$$, big crank, cam and
heads and you won't know it. Your 40 IDF's will be fine for any size engine when your looking for bottom end torque and only rev to 5k.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on March 4th, 2011 at 09:29 PM |
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Pointless changing heads if its running a standard cam IMO.
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matberry
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| posted on March 4th, 2011 at 10:25 PM |
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Definately not pointless, just not perfect.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
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tweety
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| posted on March 4th, 2011 at 11:37 PM |
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Thanks again. I have enough info now to ponder on. Great to have such interest from you all.
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waveman1500
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| posted on March 5th, 2011 at 12:09 AM |
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What's all this obsession with fuel economy? And yet you're willing to spend big bucks on an engine build/conversion to achieve said economy? Seems
silly to me. $5k or more spent on a conversion will buy an awful lot of fuel.
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tweety
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| posted on March 5th, 2011 at 07:45 AM |
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Well waveman1500 its horses for courses.
Do you spend $10,000 a year on fuel.? The world is full of people that have different life styles.
I drive about 100,000 kms upwards a year, 15,000kms a year of that i do on the trike. When retired I will get rid of one of my cars meaning more kms
on the trike to get around. I live in a rural/regional area meaning every time I want to leave the area, Dr's, groceries I have to travel. When on a
pension in a few years time I will be really happy I spent some money on making my trike more economical. Its a long term planning thing.
"$5000 will buy an awful lot of fuel" Yeh well about 3300 litres ON TODAYS PRICES. Are you watching the cost of fuel in other countries? How long
to burn that amount? Well if retired and I do say 500kms a week on my trike on my current engine I'd go through say 40 litres extra a week compared
to a diesel. Thats 82 weeks- less than 2 years.
I knew a mate that converted his HQ Holden in 1978 to LPG. And he still has it! Imagine the savings. But at the time he was "sillly".
I am 54 years old and dont plan on selling this magnificent machine ever! Hence a diesel, even a Daihatsu 3 cylinder turbo is being considered
(adapters available for these to from Sherman). But a turbo small engine is a gamble with a VW auto trans. Am still pondering it.
I come across this attitude regularly from city people or those that do say 10,000kms a year. In context if I told you I travelled 550 kms yesterday
in my Hyundai diesel i30 for $30. If I did that trip in my trike and was retired I would be out of pocket $40. or two counter meals and drinks for
dinner. Quite a difference.
I think outside the square. If a kombi owner wants to put a V8 in his ride and get 18 l/km then thats ok by me. Its called freedom. His dad might own
a servo- get it?
You never know Waveman1500, I just might be the clever one in 15 years time? Obsession or wisdom? You debate it with yourself- I'll just read the
positive comments already very gratefully received.
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Joel
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| posted on March 5th, 2011 at 10:28 AM |
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Oh yea the cost of those harley powered rewacos was rediculous, they were $10K more than VW powered well over the $40k mark.
I honestly think you'll be more than happy with just a well sorted 1916 or stroker vw engine, stroker will get you better torque and mileage.
Your current engine is just a bad combination of parts that aren't really working together well.
You've already got the IDFs and EI there, bore out those mufflers abit and get a longblock built up.
these trikes weigh half what a bug does so power to weight advantages are big.
Dads is just a stock 1600 with a few of my hand me down bits (40mm twin throat weber, electronic ignition etc).
I've got nearly triple the HP in my bug but he can pretty well match my acceleration upto 100km/h.
Karsten who was the german bloke that got the aus vw trike scene going had one of pobjoys 1916 steroid motors in his and it was a handfull let alone
Leons pheonix trike with 240hp twin turbo 2.4 vw engine which can barely keep traction.
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tweety
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| posted on March 5th, 2011 at 03:36 PM |
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Yes I hear you mate. Leon's twin turbo is on youtube getting dynoed I think???? (didnt look safe to me though)
That aside I agree with that concept, a stoker engine etc. Its not like a total rebuild but still not cheap.
Until the time comes I'll keep checking out conversions esp diesels even rotaries. Apparently from what I've read the latter can be torquey engines
and economical enough if the right version is chosen combined with the low weight. But towing might mean buying out Saudi Arabia.
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hellbugged
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| posted on March 5th, 2011 at 03:40 PM |
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on the fuel savings. i put a five speed in my car for that reason
and it will pay for itself here on the country travelling i do......some people don't get it
...couple of guys here putting good power thru those autos.
search for nbturbo and 20Bkombi
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ian.mezz
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| posted on March 5th, 2011 at 07:08 PM |
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I just looked at how much these trikes sell for..shit $35000 for a vw beetle with out its shell
and apparently they still only go as good as a beetle
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