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 modnrod
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| posted on January 11th, 2012 at 11:44 AM |
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Gearbox strength discussion
Gday all.
I've been sitting here drag racing my computer (Desktop Dyno and Qtr Jnr, basic but fun), I've got a new project coming up soon hopefully, and so I
was plugging in various specs of engine/gearbox/ratios, etc, to get a bit of a feel for combinations as a comparison. It occurred to me though, as
most people are aware, the gearbox is definately more important than anything in the ACVW set up. No good having a 12sec ride if it can only take 10
launches before it's toast.........especially if the 11th launch is in the semi's (money run  ).
I'm REALLY keen to run an auto box, it's definately slower, but very repeatable, and tough as an old boot with the benefit of absorbing a bit of
driveline shock, so hopefully will last for ages.
For those who are curious, or just want an idea of a combination that's good for the street, this is what I've been plugging into the system. Bear
in mind actual results will differ, eg launching at 4000rpm with a perfect slip on radials is difficult to repeat run after run, but it will be close
to the real world.
1854cc (76 x 88), DRD level 5 heads with 40mm intakes, centre branch manifold with 44DCNF, Web 163 cam straight up, 1.1/2 stepped headers, 1.25
rockers, 9:1 comp.........in a 1850lb Beetle launched at 4000rpm.
4.375 diff and 3.30/2.06/1.41/0.89 with 205/75x15 radials
14.31secs 1/4 and 0-60mph in 5.50secs.
4.125 diff and 3.78/2.06/1,41/1.04, same radials
14.39secs and 0-60mph in 5.61secs.
And just for stamps........
Kombi 003 auto with 4.36 diff and 3000stall, same tyres
14.95secs 1/4 and 0-60mph in 6.45secs.
As you can see, the auto is heaps slower.........until you chuck in 60HP worth of bottle, then the difference comes down to less than 0.2 of a second,
the extra torque of the bottle masking the low launch revs, as a guide the manual box will run 12.8secs-ish, and the auto 12.98secs-ish. Handy if you
want a mild and stock-ish looking streeter that doesn't attract undue attention, then flick a switch, turn on the bottle, fit some slicks and thump
the shiny Commodes!
All this is great, but does anyone have any guides as to how much (very difficult I know, every driver is different) each gearbox will take in the
real world? I've personally managed to break a 4.375 swing box with a 80hp 1641 in a light Baja, but I've also made an IRS box in a Squareback with
a 130HP 1835 live for years of hard passes, go figure? Mick ex-Hellbug has told me I shouldn't have too many problems with a single-plate IRS
Superbug box down to flat 13s (I believe him, he knows his crap), and of course, Dave can build anything to last, but generally what times for a 760kg
early Beetle would stress out the Swing box, IRS, Swing with heavy duty plates/welded good gears/superdiff, etc.
And yes, I'm leaning towards the 003 auto (it's OK, I know it won't fit, but we have the technology........), mainly coz the plan is to run mid-12s
with consistency for bracket events, and I'm desperately afraid of walking the 350km home from the track! 
Any and all experiences welcome, gives us all a bit of a guide. Thanks everyone.
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LIFE IN THE LOW LANE
A.k.a.: Brennden Alder
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| posted on January 11th, 2012 at 09:16 PM |
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Mate talk to Aaron (20bkombi) as he has a kombi auto in his wife's square back with a 13b turbo that makes 300 plus hp atw. He has tinkered with it
for a while but has got the handle on it and it works really well!!
[size=4] ACCEPT THAT SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE PIDGEON AND SOME DAYS YOU ARE THE STATUE[/size]
Alder Outlaws VW Racing - check it out on fb!!
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nbturbo
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| posted on January 11th, 2012 at 09:52 PM |
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Your Kombi box with the 003 will be weak in the auto - the diff section will be OK.You need a Vanagon trans with the 010 auto-4 gears in the gear set
instead of 3,much bigger clutch paks and there is plenty of stuff available to beef them up.The 003 has very limited hot up stuff available.The
Vanagon diff is slightly taller than the 003 Kombi box,but you can play with tyre diameters.I have just had a Vanagon trans rebuilt with full manual
shift valve body,chrome moly clutch hubs,C/M main drive shaft and pump flower.Have also fitted a billet ally spool to the diff.I haven't done a trans
brake yet-will try and hold it on the brakes.If that doesn't work,will have the valve body modified and fit some solenoids to run a trans brake.Mick
Motors are using an auto in their Drag Car with some really good results-and they have done many many passes with no maintenance to the trans at
all.As stated,Aaron uses an auto with really good results as well-and he does his own rebuilds/repairs.He has a real good grasp of how these things
operate and knows how to get the most out of them.
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modnrod
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| posted on January 12th, 2012 at 12:01 AM |
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Thanks for the replies guys. I'm leaning towards the auto for consistency and ease of use. It can be slow as crap around town, couldn't care
less.
nbturbo, the 003 was going to be replaced eventually with a 010 3sp off an Audi/2L Kombi/Vanagon, the usual full manual stuff (but no transbrake),
apparently they just bolt-up to the diff section? Could you possibly confirm this at all?
If I decide after all to run with a manual (although I doubt it), I'll probably keep a mildly built 4.375 swing, and just stick to 185/195 radials to
help ease the pain on the driveline.
I won't be using the bottle in 1st, so I'm hoping it will live OK as long as I don't get carried away and sidestep stuff. Do you blokes rekn that
swing manual would survive 1.8/1.9sec 60ft times OK?
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nbturbo
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| posted on January 12th, 2012 at 04:59 AM |
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The 003 and 010 will not exchange-they have different bolt pattern.the diff sections are not the same either. I have a 003 auto on a Type3 diff in an
Oval beetle with a 2.7 lt Type 4,and it's not sluggish around town-it's a dream to drive. The 003 uses an electric solenoid and vacuum modulater,the
010 uses a throttle pressure rod hooked to throttle pedal-so downshifts and kick down is better on the 010. The Mick Motors Drag Car has NO2 hooked up
and he gives it a hit as he leaves the line to help spool up the turbo,and he's had no trouble.It hooks up really good and he runs good 60 ft times.
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modnrod
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| posted on January 12th, 2012 at 09:30 AM |
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Sounds like the Mick's Motors car has a similar aim in the combination, been proven to work, what am I worried about?
With the full manual valvebody I won't have to worry about kickdown solenoids or modulators anyway, so sounds like a cool set up. Highway revs will
be a bit high, I'll just cruise down the roads at 100 not 110+.
Thanks for all your help nb.
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Turbo54
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| posted on January 12th, 2012 at 02:03 PM |
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NB, is that the box that Mick from MVA built you? He was telling me about it before xmas.
Heath'
C'mon kids gather round,
there's a new sensation hitting town,
It's moving straight, low to the ground,
it'll pick you up when your feeling down.
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nbturbo
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| posted on January 12th, 2012 at 08:41 PM |
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Yes-MV was the guilty party.I am pleased with his work,but we have yet to try it.
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humpty
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| posted on January 17th, 2012 at 11:25 PM |
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Have you thought about a late Sport-o-matic out of an 80's 911?.... Tiny physical size, but internally built like a 3 or 4 speed G50 so I hear.... I
have one in the shed, that I was thinking of using in my Subi powered Notch..... More than welcome to have a look at it if you like Dave.
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modnrod
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| posted on January 18th, 2012 at 12:40 AM |
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Yeah, that's be cool Simon.
Sportomatic?
Small town in southern Greece?
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humpty
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| posted on January 18th, 2012 at 12:50 AM |
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Good thing your coming down next week to have a look at the other thing... 
You can check out the Sporto whilst your here!!! 
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Turbo54
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| posted on January 18th, 2012 at 08:26 AM |
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MV, Should be great. He builds a very good box which racers here and overseas rave about.
T54
C'mon kids gather round,
there's a new sensation hitting town,
It's moving straight, low to the ground,
it'll pick you up when your feeling down.
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modnrod
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on January 18th, 2012 at 09:42 PM |
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MV?
No comprende?
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Turbo54
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| posted on January 19th, 2012 at 08:03 AM |
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MVAutomatics here in SA.
08 8370 0430
Heath
C'mon kids gather round,
there's a new sensation hitting town,
It's moving straight, low to the ground,
it'll pick you up when your feeling down.
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modnrod
Fahrvergnugen
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| posted on January 19th, 2012 at 03:04 PM |
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Cool!
Thks Heath.
Dave
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