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 2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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 posted on December 29th, 2005 at 02:06 AM |
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Hybrid Engine Project - final build up
Hi everyone,
Over the past few days I've started the final buildup of Wibble's WRX headded VW engine. For those that missed the other thread where the concept
was being developed.... the goal is to build a large displacement high reving engine that uses subaru DOHC water cooled heads.
The advantage of the subaru heads is that the built in performance capability of them. The ports are huge!. Add to that reliability, 4 valves,
hydraulic operation, water cooled, the list goes on. Naturally aspirated heads have small combustion chambers and will be on the engine in its final
build, but in this built it will have a pair of MY98 WRX heads with 55cc combustion chambers. This means a low compression ratio and as a result
reduced performance. (about 190hp i'm hoping for).
The 2180 will redline at 7300 RPM. The limiting factor being the subaru valve train and the mahle forged pistons. To go above that we'd need to run
wiseco's and aftermarket valve springs which will be a simple bolt in affair when its all done. The wiseco's MIGHT be needed depending ont he valve
pocket depth that has yet to be cut into the pistons, as the mahle's can only handle pockets to a depth of about 0.140".
So after designing and machining about 5 different versions of head stud adapters I decided in a final design. There was a lot to consider with making
the head stud adapters. My main problem was that I'd we'd bought an engine case that used 10mm head studs. This complicated the whole project
because it meant there were no "off the shelf" bolts available that would allow the plates to be bolted on properly and still clear the barrels.
About the empi alloy cases, after seeing one I think i'd prefer the CB alloy engine block. Having 6 shuffel pins for a start, but also being a CB
product its probably better quality and better machined too. One of the shuffel pins on the empi case was loose because the machining tolerences were
out... Typical Empi quality...
This is the specs of the engine so far...
78mm osraka german forged billet crank
scat 5.7" h-beam 4340 rods with 3/8th rod bolts
empi alloy case with 10mm head studs
A stock cam is used for an oil pump drive, with clearancing for the conrods as the 3/8th bolts make them fat!
Welded stock lifters, installed to block the oil galleries. Glued into place with silicon for the moment, but after the engine proves itself the oil
gallery plugs will be drilled and tapped, and plugs will be installed to allow oil supply to the lifter bores to be closed off. I didn't want to
modify the block too much incase the whole project goes sideways...
mahle 94's with total seal 2nd rings
CB dry sump pump , full flow fitting on the front of the case will be t'd off to supply oil to the heads via external hose plumbing. Oil return via
some custom tubes that will return via the pushrod tube holes in the case.
custom head stud adapters, 10mm plate bolts to the block and 12mm head bolts. All grade 12 high tensile steel.
MY98 wrx heads with modifed water cooling supply and returns.
The next part of the project requires 12mm to be machined off the base of the barels so the fit inside the engine case again and the deck height is
restored to 0. Setting the actual deck will be done with a 0.040" copper head gasket and barrel shims. I'll be getting the barrel machining work
done next week once we are all back from holidays.
After that its heads, timing belt, oil supplys and returns, intake manifold and then a test start. (who needs an exhaust) Timeframe is about another
month... so we'll see if I can keep that.
Here's the pictures...
I'll keep everyone posted.
Cheers,
[ Edited on 28-12-2005 by iswinkels ]
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Dasdubber
A.k.a.: Alan Agyik
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| posted on December 29th, 2005 at 07:16 AM |
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Even the temporary zip ties have been well engineered!! 
Great stuff, hope all the planning and fabrication work out well in the end. Best of luck for the remainder of the project.
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humpty
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| posted on January 2nd, 2006 at 11:27 PM |
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He, he...Too right Das!
Ian sure is an inventive bugger!
Great project this....It has been the topic of many nights at the pub....
Cant wait to see the result!
Some of those Rally Cross Bugs from the early Nineties made silly power with those heads...Can't wait to see something like this on the street!
On that note...Do you have a car for this beast?
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on January 2nd, 2006 at 11:39 PM |
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Well i'm back to work tommorrow. On the bright side the machine shop at work can cut the barrels down 11.5mm some time over the next few days. The
pistons will be being weight matched also, then the heads will be bolted on firmly for the setup of the valve train, timing belt setup etc.
The engine is going in Wibble's Myers manx, but the first time its started it will be on the floor attached to some kind of stand or tranny. Street
driving the engine is a little ways off yet.
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76bug
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| posted on January 19th, 2006 at 08:01 AM |
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hi ian
this is goin to sound like a silly question but ill ask any lol, the fact that u a using wrx heads are u eliminating the use of the push rods? if so
how are u driving the valve train?
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Midlife crisis
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| posted on January 19th, 2006 at 08:21 AM |
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there is a earlier post about this engine showing pictures of the belt driven valve train.
Marc
If you can't laugh at yourself you can't laugh at anyone else! Because life is to short not to LAUGH
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on January 19th, 2006 at 08:26 AM |
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Thats right. See the gilmer drive pully on the crank. This drives the DOHC cams on the heads. There is going to be 2 or 3 tensioners, and an
idler/pully that also drives the porsche air alternator to air cool the cylinders.
The barrels still havn't been machined. The machine shops been too busy to get it done for me... but I can't complain because they are doing it for
free!
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on January 19th, 2006 at 10:37 AM |
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Great work Ian, looking really really good. Cant wait to see the next update.
VW and Subaru meet in harmony finally
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shiftyvw
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| posted on January 19th, 2006 at 04:01 PM |
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Not trying to knock your project, but what is the advantage of this conversion, over using the whole subaru engine? Is the subaru bottom end
compromised in any way? Just cant see the benefit of retaining a vw bottom end, apart from weight perhaps.
Interesting project nevertheless!
testing 1 2 3...
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on January 19th, 2006 at 04:16 PM |
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Well competition eliminator heads ported won't flow as much as a stock wrx head, so there is the air-flow advantage.
Then there's the stock valve train limit of the wrx head of 7300 (some say 8000).
Water cooled heads, so this means even engine temps and the EFI system will reference a sensor in the coolant system in the head so it will run very
nicely(unlike my car that tends to idle rich until its at full temp due to the 7lt of oil capacity).
The vw engine block means that no engineering approval is required for the conversion.
VW bottom end options are more varied. This same conversion would fit on a 94x86 block (2387cc). WRX aftermarket crank and rod options are hugely
expensive. This engine has the osraka crank and scat h-beams which is easily good for 8000 rpm.
In the end it will have cost as much as a comp eliminator head setup, but will be more reliable. Plus i'll have plans to churn out a few kits, and
considering how many wrx heads are lying around in this country well.... consider the possabilities...
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shiftyvw
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| posted on January 19th, 2006 at 04:56 PM |
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cool, fair enough i suppose.
testing 1 2 3...
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76bug
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| posted on January 20th, 2006 at 08:26 AM |
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hi ian,
i have read over the thread properly this time, i really like the concept im build a 2276 94x82 at the moment, and have been debating as to wot heads
i should use, would the wrx head conersion be viable for me?
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on January 20th, 2006 at 12:11 PM |
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Yes it could be depending on the car its going into. The wrx heads are 15mm wider than stock heads so the engine bay would require some radical
clearancing.
Plus an alloy engine block would be ideal with a slightly raised deck, but you can get away without that.
8mm head stud cases are easier to convert, though the prototype is using 10mm head studs. Given the opportinity to do it again i'd get an 8mm head
stud case because it solves clearancing issues and is generally a lot easier to do.
Magnesium cases can be converted easily too. They are thinner around the flywheel area so its a lot easier to get the head stud conversion plate in.
All the measurements I did for the first series of plates were from a mag case. I had to do it all again for the alloy one.
Its a fair way off being available as a kit tho. I'd imagine the prototype will be running inside about 1 month tho.
Cheers,
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76bug
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| posted on January 20th, 2006 at 01:44 PM |
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hmmm interesting, well the car is a 76 bug so yeah would be a tight squeeze
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dangerous
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| posted on January 24th, 2006 at 07:51 PM |
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Hi Ian,
Do you have some flow figures and valve sizes of the heads?
Regards, DB.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by westi
That's mad Alan.
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on February 1st, 2006 at 04:32 PM |
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No I don't have any flow figures actually. These heads aren't ported yet. I'll probably knife edge the intakes wher they split to two valves but I
doubt they need anything more than that. The intakes are bigger than the intake ports on my comp eliminator heads.
I'll measure the valves next time i'm downstairs...
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on February 1st, 2006 at 04:48 PM |
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So here's the latest update. I've gotten the cylinders back from the machine shop. They made up a brass slug that fits into the cylinder the piston
end so they could hold it tightly in the chuck without fear of distorting or crushing the barrel.
For the bottom of the barrel an aluminium slug was also machined up that allowed the dead center of the lathe to lock into it.
All barrels have 11.5mm machined off the bottom of them, which restores the deck height to 0 after taking into consideration the 5.7" rods and the
15mm barrel spacer/stud adapters.
Here's a shot of the water cooling galery block off plate. These locate the cylinders and also block the water galleries in the heads.
Now this is starting to look pretty good. Here is the engine pictured head to head. It fits together like it was made to!
The insides of the DOHC heads.
Next steps are :
1. Piston balancing and final fitup of cylinders(deck height setting etc)
2. Sorting out the oil drain from the heads to go back thru the pushrod tube holes.
3. Blocking off the water galeries on the heads, and re-routing the coolant to enter and exit via the plugs that are in the middle and at each end of
the heads.
4. Order some nice head stud bolts.
5. Custom machine some cam drive pullies to allow the timing to be set and adjusted.
6. Intake manifold construction.
7. Test run...
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kroozzn63
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| posted on February 1st, 2006 at 05:11 PM |
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IS IT WORKING YET?
show us your gates
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kroozzn63
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| posted on February 1st, 2006 at 05:12 PM |
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OK I SHOULD READ FIRST
show us your gates
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humpty
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| posted on February 1st, 2006 at 05:19 PM |
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Damn Ian.... Thats looking mighty forceful!
Those heads make VW jobs look plan primative....
So why did Subaru drop the Quad Cam engines in most of their range?
Are you gonna use a distributor for spark????
With all that tech, I would have thought a crank fire number would be EZR to adapt...
Looking good anyhow....
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on February 1st, 2006 at 05:41 PM |
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The distributor is there to hold the dist drive in place. We have a few options for ignition. One of which is a old school vertex magneto, and then
drop on a pair of 48 IDA's. Sort of new age nostalga?
But the real plan is a lot more insane sounding... Modified wrx intake manifold with injectors, modified distributor electronic ignition trigger
disc. Sequential EFI, either single coil or 4 coil ignition (undecided), and last of all, a Nissan RB20 or RB25 turbo.
With 3-4lb boost its an easy 200hp and 7300 RPM engine. Then with up to 12lb its potentially a 300+ rwhp engine.
Did I mention this is going into Wibbles Myers Manx?
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humpty
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| posted on February 1st, 2006 at 10:39 PM |
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Can I say just one thing.....
NUTS!
There... Ive said it.... I feel better now..
This is kinda old school anyway Ian.... There was quite a few Rally Cross Bugs in the early 90's running these heads.... With very good results...
Should be Mad in a Manx....
Hee.... I can see the mag feature title now...
Mad Manx.... Beyond Everything
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on February 1st, 2006 at 10:52 PM |
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Yeah they were using EJ22 heads on type 4 engines thouigh I think. Nobody was able to get any real info from the "pioneers" of this class of engine
though, so mine is 100% designed by me.
[ Edited on 2-2-2006 by iswinkels ]
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reub
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| posted on February 1st, 2006 at 11:03 PM |
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I can't wait to hear how this engine runs. Lots of thinking looks to be paying off dude....
Reub
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wibble
A.k.a.: Warren Way
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| posted on February 2nd, 2006 at 11:18 AM |
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Wahoo, cant wait to get home and check it out!!! 
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on February 2nd, 2006 at 05:08 PM |
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Looking sweet as Ian, must be real nice to see the theory turning into reality....
I kinda like the idea of 48IDA's and a magneto.... retro tech
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1303
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| posted on February 3rd, 2006 at 04:23 PM |
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This is too cool!!!..... I think the HP figures you are aiming for are more than achievable. I have a 100k Kilometer early EJ20T with the small TD04
in my beetle and that made 198hp at the wheels. I think with the crazy mods planned and the extra cc capacity it will be a weapon.... Top idea WRX
power with about 40kgs less weight!
Cheers Paul
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on February 3rd, 2006 at 08:05 PM |
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I don't know about it being that much lighter. These heads weigh quite a few more KG's than a vw head. I'll weigh them next time I get a chance
and let you all know the diference.
The latest news now is i have to order some custom length head studs that are 220mm long, with a M12x1.5mm thread at each end. I need 12 for the head
studs. With any luck they'll be in my hands mid to late next week.
If anyone knows of an engine (Toyota or Nissan) that uses head bolts with the same thread it might be useful. I can use a head bolt instead of studs
as an alternative and it would be cheaper to go to the wreckers and pinch some head bolts out of some dead junk yard engine than trying to track down
these bolts or worst case get them machined from high tensile chromoly rod.
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Doug Sweetman
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| posted on February 7th, 2006 at 10:58 PM |
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Ian - did u get a chance to work on the 'Monster Engine' on the weekend ? (or should I call it Frankenstein)
.....I'm dying for an update......
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2443TT
A.k.a.: Ian
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| posted on February 7th, 2006 at 11:25 PM |
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Fraid not. Next is to track down a pair of EJ20 naturally aspirated cylinder heads, and confirm the data that they are infact 40cc combusin chambers.
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