| [ Total Views: 1790 | Total Replies: 21 | Thread Id: 9815 ] |
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 Robo
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| posted on August 28th, 2003 at 07:13 AM |
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GT 40 coil
Hi Guys
I want to get a new coil for the bus 77 2ltr Kombi, what one do I need GT 40R or non resistor! Has any one got one of those new plastic or resin GT
40's are they better than the oil filled can, type? I also want to go with a petronix points eliminator ingnition system.
Any comments appreciated!
Rob.......
[Edited on 27-8-2003 by Robo]
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kombikim
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| posted on August 28th, 2003 at 09:11 AM |
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GT40 not R
mixed feelings & opionions about new type they don't actually "work any better" as in you wont notice any difference, they are
certainly a lot smaller, which can be an advantage, & lighter
Please, I need drivers side window regulator (winder mechanism) for my '54  |
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Robo
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| posted on August 28th, 2003 at 09:14 AM |
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Thanks Kim!
I have been thinking of mounting it off the engine, the smaller plastic one's would be better for this I would imagine! also do you have any
knowlage of the breaker less points eliminator systems. will they work with a GT 40 coil?
Rob......
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 Bizarre
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| posted on August 28th, 2003 at 09:30 AM |
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I would rather recomend a Bosh coil
Blue if points
Black if electronic
I "think" the model is SU12 or something
Micks or Volkspower
The breakerless point (Magfire etc) need 3.5 ohms to work. Low resistance (1 ohm) will burn it out.
Futue te ipsum!!!
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whatnow
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| posted on August 28th, 2003 at 02:31 PM |
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the coil i had was a SU120... i think that is the one blue 74 is talking about. i had a pointless conversion but the two things were never on the
engine at the same time....
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kombikim
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| posted on August 28th, 2003 at 02:41 PM |
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my answer would be that the GT40 would be compatible with any "any"(most)breakerless bolt on, decide on a breakerless system (I will be
getting a magfire) then get the coil, I guess
Please, I need drivers side window regulator (winder mechanism) for my '54 |
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FirstName V LastName W
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| posted on August 28th, 2003 at 11:15 PM |
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Have used countless numbers of Oil filled Bosch GT40 coils with both the Compufire and Petronix drop in point replacement electronic ignition kits.
Both worked faultless. Do prefer the Petronix kit, little neater and fits slighlty better. As for the newer style resin filled transister sytle GT40
wouldn't touch them anymore. Can remember of at least 4 that I have taken of engines and replaced, one at least that I fitted, also know of one
very well repected VW enthusist that works for the NRMA that has nothing good to say about the same sytle of coil. Can't go past the old Oil
filled Bosch GT40 triggered by the simple and cost affective Petronix electronics.
Each to their own just remember what goes around come around.
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on August 28th, 2003 at 11:23 PM |
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I have had trouble with all the GT40 coils, I now use a oil filled Bosch, SU120 in the new style are good as well.
The GT40 coils all worked well on single carb stock motors, but not on any of my Twin carb motors.
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kombikim
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| posted on August 28th, 2003 at 11:25 PM |
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personally I bought one when they first came out & it died, as in weak spark, within a year, & never bought another one
BUT I know people who have fitted them & had no trouble , it may be that initial teething problems have been sorted - because of my bad
experience I am loathe to risk geting another one
Please, I need drivers side window regulator (winder mechanism) for my '54 |
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on August 28th, 2003 at 11:37 PM |
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which one did you buy ?
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FirstName V LastName W
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| posted on August 28th, 2003 at 11:41 PM |
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?????????????????????????????????????
Thinking of what could make a difference spark wise between a motor with single carb and that with twin carb's. Nothing springs to mind except
the twin carb's were feeding the engine too much fuel wetting down the plugs causing the electrode to become soaked with fuel and resulting in a
misfire. Ar just a thought.
Each to their own just remember what goes around come around.
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Robo
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| posted on August 29th, 2003 at 06:07 AM |
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Thanks guys
looks like the petronix is the go as for the points replacement! whats the difference between a Bosch Blue and Black coil?
Rob......
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Bizarre
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| posted on August 29th, 2003 at 08:47 AM |
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There was a post on the old forum about some one who worked at Bosch supposedly
Blue.. standard points
Black.. electronic ignition
and i think there is a red as well
Futue te ipsum!!!
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mnsKmobi
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| posted on August 29th, 2003 at 10:52 AM |
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Stuff about Bosch coils
This is an extract from an 80s Bosch catalogue about vw ignition parts;
http://www.type2.com/library/electrip/boignp.htm
At the bottom of this page are Bob Hoover's comments about black and blue coils:
http://www.geocities.com/vwresource/tune_up
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Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
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| posted on August 29th, 2003 at 08:13 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by FirstName V LastName W
?????????????????????????????????????
Thinking of what could make a difference spark wise between a motor with single carb and that with twin carb's. Nothing springs to mind except
the twin carb's were feeding the engine too much fuel wetting down the plugs causing the electrode to become soaked with fuel and resulting in a
misfire. Ar just a thought.
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Your close, not "too much" fuel just more. Twin carbies will show the weakness in a coil as the motor is put under more load, and a weaker
spark with make the motor missfire, usually at a higher rev range than a single carbie motor.:thumb
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bugboymatt
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| posted on August 29th, 2003 at 08:26 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
I have had trouble with all the GT40 coils, I now use a oil filled Bosch, SU120 in the new style are good as well.
The GT40 coils all worked well on single carb stock motors, but not on any of my Twin carb motors.
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Got a petronix kit already up and running and am lookin gat replacing the coil.
What kinda price looking at for the one your using ?
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Craig Torrens
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| posted on August 29th, 2003 at 08:40 PM |
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not too sure ! most auto shops sell them.
I managed to get a stock Bosch coil from a Repco store, about $40....I think, a few years ago now !
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bugboymatt
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| posted on August 29th, 2003 at 08:45 PM |
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Cool.... thanks for that. might call round in the morning see whats in store....
Da Time For The Aircooled Revolution Is Upon US.
Brothers & Sisters Lets Hit The Streets, Roll As One. And Feel The Power Of The Aircooled Storm.
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kombikim
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| posted on August 29th, 2003 at 10:26 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
which one did you buy ?
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SORRY Craig dead internet problems
I ment I bought a resin filled when they first came out, my next coil will be SU120 t
Please, I need drivers side window regulator (winder mechanism) for my '54 |
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jakriz
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| posted on August 30th, 2003 at 12:29 AM |
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I've been using the same GT40 (red) oil filled coil with a Pertronix ignitor module & twin carbies for about 6 years now.
I might have just got lucky it seems.?
regards
Jak
Congratulations to Ben Durie for breaking the hillclimb record at Ringwood in his stroker beetle!
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70AutoStik
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| posted on August 31st, 2003 at 01:21 AM |
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I think things are getting a little confused with the "red coil" bit.
The classic GT40 "red coil" has been around for 30 years and has been used with great success by many VW owners. The "40" part
refers to it's output of 40kV peak in comparison to a stock coil's 20 or so. Sorry, mnsKmobi, but your guy doesn't seem to know much
about electrical theory - "the amount of energy going into your coil is determined by the points." I think he's getting confused by
the extra energy available with the "dwell extension" provided by most electronic ignitions. The red coil has slightly less turns on the
primary and more turns on the secondary. This produces a spark of faster rise time, higher peak voltage and higher energy, but with some loss in the
length (time-wise) of the spark. This is great for firing leaner mixtures, fouled plugs or at higher revs.
In more recent times, Bosch have brought out an epoxy-type coil, also red and also called a GT40, which does not have any advatages I can see except
it looks a bit trendier. Oil-filled coils have a "self-healing" property (to cope with inevitable spikes through the insulating material,
usually a kind of paper,) whereas epoxy does not. This, combined with their inferior ability to dissipate and cope with heat, may be why these
latter types have developed a reputation for unreliability. They are also not compatible with many "pointless" ignitions due to their lower
primary resistance.
Finally, I don't think anyone answered one of the original questions: A non-resistor type coil should always be used with VWs, they never used a
starter resistor.
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68AutoBug
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| posted on August 31st, 2003 at 10:46 PM |
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I believe the "starter resistor" coils such as the GT40R was used in 6 & 8 cylinder cars to help them have enough spark when winding the
Larger engines over. There is no reason why a resistor type coil couldn't be used (with a Resistor) on a VW engine. Its just that they never
were, and I have never seen one on a VW personally. I have read where the GT40 Bosch coils shouldn't be used with Electronic or CDI Ignition
systems. I am installing a DSE High Energy Ignition in My 68 AutoBug and the instructions say NOT to use the "High Output" type coils like
the GT40.
CDI = Capacitor Discharge Ignition
DSE = Dick Smith Electronics
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- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
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mnsKmobi
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| posted on September 2nd, 2003 at 01:01 PM |
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| Quote: | Originally
posted by 68AutoBug
I believe the "starter resistor" coils such as the GT40R was used in 6 & 8 cylinder cars to help them have enough spark when winding the
Larger engines over.
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The coils used with resistors are designed to run at 6V (or there abouts). They have two connections on the +ve side. One bypasses the resistor and
only gets current when you're cranking the engine over. This means that you get a better spark at starting because you're sending > 6V
through a 6V coil. But if you keep doing that you'll shag the coil, so once the engine has started, the coil draws current via the resistor to
drop the 12-14 volts to 6V. The idea is that a non-resistor coil is going to be putting out less spark at starting because it is designed to run at
>12V and is getting < 12V because the starter motor drops the voltage so much.
| Quote: | There is no reason
why a resistor type coil couldn't be used (with a Resistor) on a VW engine. Its just that they never were, and I have never seen one on a VW
personally.
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Seems reasonable, though you wouldn't get the starting advantage without a bit of f#@king around.
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68AutoBug
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| posted on September 2nd, 2003 at 05:08 PM |
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Thanks for that info, as I said I haven't had anything to do with the external resistor coils but it would take a bit to use them correctly on a
VW.... unless it was just connected via the resistor all the time, whether the engine would start is another question...
I have a couple of these so I'll give them to My Son who is a VW & Ford enthusist.
thanks again.... I love learning.... Lee
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