| [ Total Views: 1538 | Total Replies: 29 | Thread Id: 99081 ] |
|
|
 DubbyDo
A.k.a.: Dave
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 276
Threads: 45
Registered: January 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Pottsville NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: need more compreshunn!
|
| posted on October 5th, 2012 at 10:56 PM |
|
|
Oil cooling, any tips ideas?
We are heading into my first buildup ( change of season to stinking hot!!, not resto time ) and I am unsure how the stock 1600 TP in my beetle is going to handle it ( god knows I struggle). It will
probably do fine but for my peace of mind I would like some additional cooling.
Since fitting an empi header and phatboy I have welded up the holes in the rear tin where the 2 heater hoses and intake heater hose went through
which has helped , Much better than 3 2 inchish size openings. But when i get home from work, a 12 min drive at 80k's it reeks of heat so I think
it might need some help.
To run an external/additional cooler what do I need to do? Is it necessary to remove the engine to convert to full flow, run a filter etc etc etc?
Would I achieve adequate cooling by just fitting a bigger sump? I would like to get this stuff sorted now so when I build my new unstock motor it's
ready to rock.
Cheers for your help.
Dave
|
|
|
68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
Posts: 11654
Threads: 449
Registered: August 31st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SCONE in UPPER HUNTER VALLEY NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
|
| posted on October 5th, 2012 at 11:24 PM |
|
|
Stand OFFS
Hi Dave
firstly, I recommend keeping Your doghouse oil cooler..
maybe buy a new one..
and I also like the extra finned alloy sumps and alloy finned tappet covers.
and naturally the external spin on oil filter and top of pump outlet
best of all... but many people don't like the look of it..
the top of the engine lid open... Stand Offs
that really makes a difference on a HOT day.. and lets the hot air out when the engine is stopped..
I used the alloy type Stand Offs at first but took all winter to get the engine lid aligned properly so I have the other steel made up type now...
about 3 minutes to take them off and put the engine lid back closed up... although I leave Mine open all summer..
until the really cold weather.. hits..
someone on here was making the good STAND OFFS ..
cheers
LEE
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j279/68autobug/STANDOFFSFITTED.jpg?t=134944...
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
|
|
|
Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Posts: 8040
Threads: 347
Registered: January 10th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Time to go Salt lake racing, and actually achieve a result.
|
| posted on October 6th, 2012 at 12:22 AM |
|
|
If you have fitted headers and phatboy you MUST increase your main jet size on the carby. The free flowing exhaust will make your motor run lean,
which = hotter.Change the Jet ASAP.
Prop the bottom of the engine lid open, this will drop temps of around 10-15 deg.
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=96229#pid895480
As for sumps, coolers, etc etc don't bother. VW's were sold in countries a lot hotter than Aus and survived for decades !
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on October 6th, 2012 at 01:07 PM |
|
|
All depends on what oil temp you have when it is hot, oil starts to break down over 100 degree,s c, put a oil temp gauge in and see what your maxium
temp is, you can fit a full flow oil filter if you deceide to fit a cooler, this is a good idea as a vw engine only has a mesh strainer in the sump.
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on October 6th, 2012 at 01:27 PM |
|
|
As Craig says you need to up the jetting now with that freer flowing muffler.
By welding up the breast plate heater hose holes can we assume you no longer have heaterboxes?
Very common mistake people make is removing the heater hoses but leaving the heaterboxes in place, thats a good way to cook your engine.
Also have you blocked off the 2 heater hose outlets on the shroud?
A 1600 in a bug even in tropics heat does not need an external oil cooler, if you have heat issues you have problems somewhere.
Peope put external oil coolers on as a band-aid fix to cover other problems like wrongly jetted carbs, off timing, poorly fitting aftermarket tinware,
unvented engine lids etc
Even most 2L+ engines built and tuned right don't need external coolers or deep sumps, but a full flow filter setup is always a good addition.
|
|
|
 matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
Threads: 134
Registered: March 7th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
|
| posted on October 6th, 2012 at 01:31 PM |
|
|
^^ great posts above.
Fix the problem of the running hot, not treat the symptom of excessive oil temperature.
The other area often overlooked is fitting a wide fan into an engine bay that doesn't have the extra air available like the 4 vent late decklid.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
 |
|
|
DubbyDo
A.k.a.: Dave
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 276
Threads: 45
Registered: January 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Pottsville NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: need more compreshunn!
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 12:43 AM |
|
|
Thanks guys, very helpful info. Yes Joel, I capped off both the shroud outlets at the same time I welded up the rear tin. But no, heater boxes still
theredidnt think they would have any effect if they were
blocked off from the upper engine bay. Have some J Tubes but they are flanged and the header isnt, will get the die grinder out and remove the flanges
then chuck them on.
Does anyone sell larger jets for a 34 pict? I have noticed since fitting the new exhaust that the tune is out, but man does it rev better
Matt, still the stock fan with 2 vent deck lid, 1971 style. Do you know much about squirrel cage? shrouds? seen some in Volksworld mags, any good for
the street? or purely drag racing in ball numbingly cold places???
|
|
|
matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
Threads: 134
Registered: March 7th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 07:46 AM |
|
|
IMO the electric options are not up to the task. Fit those J's, (I'd put flanges nto your muffler/system, you could cut them off your old system)
and to increase your main jet, you can ream the old jet to creep up on the correct size using an exhaust gas analyzer to check the AFR's
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 08:11 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by DubbyDo
Thanks guys, very helpful info. Yes Joel, I capped off both the shroud outlets at the same time I welded up the rear tin. But no, heater boxes still
theredidnt think they would have any effect if they were
blocked off from the upper engine bay. Have some J Tubes but they are flanged and the header isnt, will get the die grinder out and remove the flanges
then chuck them on.
|
There's were most of your heat issues are coming from, get those J tubes on soon.
Alot of people dont realise it but the heaters actually work all the time, just when they aren;t turned on they have a bypass valve which dumps the
heat outside.
Without airflow from the fanshroud blowing through them constantly the heat sinks inside them get really f'king hot which doesn't do the heads
directly above them any favours
|
|
|
DubbyDo
A.k.a.: Dave
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 276
Threads: 45
Registered: January 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Pottsville NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: need more compreshunn!
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 10:06 AM |
|
|
Thanks for the heads up Joel. Will go and rip them off now. Might look at rigging up a temp gauge to read under bonnet temps, see what difference
there is with standoffs and without.
|
|
|
vwo60
Veteran Volks Folk
Posts: 2036
Threads: 71
Registered: February 13th, 2007
Member Is Offline
Location: Pomona Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Psyche Blue
Mood: good
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 11:22 AM |
|
|
Joel, can you please explain were the bypass valve is for the heater boxes, on all the cars i have had it only has the flap at the outlet of the
heater box to supply the hot air to inside the car with no other outlet.
|
|
|
Bizarre
Super Moderator
The artist formerly known as blue74l
Posts: 12755
Threads: 731
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Abbotsford, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 11:38 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by DubbyDo
will get the die grinder out and remove the flanges then chuck them on.
|
Dont do that!
You need a turn up on the J tube to hold the clamp.
Whatever - that doesnt work anyway.
You are half way there - get some more flanges and put them on the header so you have a propper join
OK - I am wrong
J pipes dont have turn ups   
Still - flanges are a better option
Futue te ipsum!!!
|
|
|
Bizarre
Super Moderator
The artist formerly known as blue74l
Posts: 12755
Threads: 731
Registered: August 25th, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: Abbotsford, Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 11:45 AM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
Joel, can you please explain were the bypass valve is for the heater boxes, on all the cars i have had it only has the flap at the outlet of the
heater box to supply the hot air to inside the car with no other outlet.
|
That box just above the flange that joins the motor is the outlet.
The lever either opens the flap to allow the air to go to the cabin or spills the air back towards the motor.
If you have the early cast aluminium heater boxes it is especially important to have the air flow - other wise heat is just building up in the heater
box and just radiates away.
It NEEDs the air flow to wash the heat away - it needs to go somewhere. Either to the cabin or atmosphere
On a side note
This opens another can of worms - why is every one so uptight over blocking the heater outlets up when the heater hoses are not there??
The air is always spilling out.
Yes - there is a different amount of pressure, but the air is ALWAYS spilling
Futue te ipsum!!!
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 12:26 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
On a side note
This opens another can of worms - why is every one so uptight over blocking the heater outlets up when the heater hoses are not there??
The air is always spilling out.
Yes - there is a different amount of pressure, but the air is ALWAYS spilling
|
It's to do with back pressure.
Infact Jakes testing found blocking them off completely is almost as bad.
A plug with a hole about 1.5" from memory replicates the same back pressure that heaterboxes create.
Blocking them comptely causes turbulance inside.
Not enough to cause overheating but it does make one side run hotter than the other.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
Joel, can you please explain were the bypass valve is for the heater boxes, on all the cars i have had it only has the flap at the outlet of the
heater box to supply the hot air to inside the car with no other outlet.
|
Unless you know it's there its hard to spot, see the pic below.
really simple how it works, when the lever is pulled the flap blocks one side, then blocks the other as its released.
| Error |
| Sorry, you must be a registered user in order to download attachments. |
|
|
|
|
68AutoBug
A.k.a.: Lee Noonan
Aircooled Master
Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138% - YIKES --
Posts: 11654
Threads: 449
Registered: August 31st, 2002
Member Is Offline
Location: SCONE in UPPER HUNTER VALLEY NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Yellow
Mood: Really Mentally Ill - all of the time -
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 01:04 PM |
|
|
YIKES
so having My heater boxes is OK?
naturally with flanges , the clamps are 1938 technology IMHO
I know its been mentioned that the samall hole in the heaterbox iflaps is there for a reason??
maybe to keep the moisture out of the cars heater channels?
When You say the air is disturbed without the heat boxes, does that mean without the heatbox outlet??
like if they are cut off and welded over??
or just plugged??
I didn't think that the heaters did much apart from heating the car on a COLD Scone day.. lol
LEE
- [size=4]Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY--- [/size]
|
|
|
DubbyDo
A.k.a.: Dave
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 276
Threads: 45
Registered: January 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Pottsville NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: need more compreshunn!
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 02:23 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
| Quote: | Originally
posted by DubbyDo
will get the die grinder out and remove the flanges then chuck them on.
|
Dont do that!
You need a turn up on the J tube to hold the clamp.
Whatever - that doesnt work anyway.
You are half way there - get some more flanges and put them on the header so you have a propper join
OK - I am wrong
J pipes dont have turn ups
Still - flanges are a better option
|
do you know off the top of your head where I could buy some flanges?
|
|
|
matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
Threads: 134
Registered: March 7th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 03:14 PM |
|
|
I have them, are your old flanges the same profile and stud spacing as the head exhaust gasket?
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
|
|
|
DubbyDo
A.k.a.: Dave
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 276
Threads: 45
Registered: January 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Pottsville NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: need more compreshunn!
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 08:58 PM |
|
|
Just checked them Matt, same as standard. Can you pm me how to order some. Cheers
|
|
|
DubbyDo
A.k.a.: Dave
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 276
Threads: 45
Registered: January 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Pottsville NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: need more compreshunn!
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 09:32 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Joel
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Bizarre
On a side note
This opens another can of worms - why is every one so uptight over blocking the heater outlets up when the heater hoses are not there??
The air is always spilling out.
Yes - there is a different amount of pressure, but the air is ALWAYS spilling
|
It's to do with back pressure.
Infact Jakes testing found blocking them off completely is almost as bad.
A plug with a hole about 1.5" from memory replicates the same back pressure that heaterboxes create.
Blocking them comptely causes turbulance inside.
Not enough to cause overheating but it does make one side run hotter than the other.
| Quote: | Originally
posted by vwo60
Joel, can you please explain were the bypass valve is for the heater boxes, on all the cars i have had it only has the flap at the outlet of the
heater box to supply the hot air to inside the car with no other outlet.
|
Unless you know it's there its hard to spot, see the pic below.
really simple how it works, when the lever is pulled the flap blocks one side, then blocks the other as its released.
|
should I drill 3 1/2" holes in both blanking caps to prevent this turbulence?
|
|
|
matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
Threads: 134
Registered: March 7th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 09:44 PM |
|
|
pm sent
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
|
|
|
Joel
Scirocco Rare
Now containing 100% E-Wang
Posts: 9368
Threads: 211
Registered: February 14th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Northern Rivers NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Purple
Mood: Tact Level 0.00
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 09:45 PM |
|
|
A hole in the plug the correct size will keep perfect harmony inside the shroud but really I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.
millions and millions of Bugs and Kombis have got around for decades with the outlets just capped off, main thing not to do is leave them open.
|
|
|
Craig Torrens
A.k.a.: Craig Torrens
Scirocco Rare
6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Posts: 8040
Threads: 347
Registered: January 10th, 2003
Member Is Offline
Location: Sydney
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue ( Default )
Mood: Time to go Salt lake racing, and actually achieve a result.
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 10:45 PM |
|
|
Priority is to get your jets done 
|
|
|
DubbyDo
A.k.a.: Dave
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 276
Threads: 45
Registered: January 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Pottsville NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: need more compreshunn!
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 11:37 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by Craig Torrens
Priority is to get your jets done
|
I'm hearin ya! Just need to get a jet drill set, the old JBS HSS set won't cut it I reckon!!! Would love to go the whole hog but,
new cam, crank, barrels blah blah blah but her majesty has put me on the tightest budget for the mo. So getting the poxy 34 pict up to speed so to
speak will have to do.
Thanks to everyone for their input has been super helpful
|
|
|
DubbyDo
A.k.a.: Dave
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 276
Threads: 45
Registered: January 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Pottsville NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: need more compreshunn!
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 11:48 PM |
|
|
| Quote: | Originally
posted by matberry
pm sent
|
Pm sent back
|
|
|
DubbyDo
A.k.a.: Dave
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 276
Threads: 45
Registered: January 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Pottsville NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: need more compreshunn!
|
| posted on October 7th, 2012 at 11:55 PM |
|
|
Went out and removed the old heat exchangers and refitted minus the shroud for now, can see what you mean Joel, there's a little valve facing the
rear of the car from the outlet to the heater boxes which is open when you have the heater taps shut. Massive heat sink.
Will fit the new J tubes when I have welded on the new flanges, will post a pic tomorrow of the original J'ish tubes, couple more bends than
aftermarket jobbies
|
|
|
matberry
Super Moderator
Go hard or go home
Posts: 8114
Threads: 134
Registered: March 7th, 2006
Member Is Offline
Location: Cooroy Qld
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: enjoying waving at all my Kombi buddies from my T3
|
| posted on October 9th, 2012 at 08:25 AM |
|
|
Exhaust flanges are on the way, posted yesterday.
I'd recommend jet reamers, much more accurate and repeatable than drills IMO. (although a micrometer is then handy for sizing the reamers)
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
|
|
|
DubbyDo
A.k.a.: Dave
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 276
Threads: 45
Registered: January 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Pottsville NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: need more compreshunn!
|
| posted on October 9th, 2012 at 02:34 PM |
|
|
Why won't this let me add an attachment? The choose file section is faded, won't open....
|
|
|
 barls
A.k.a.: Mr indestructible
Super Administrator
Causer of Chaos and Mayhem
Posts: 9467
Threads: 295
Registered: June 22nd, 2004
Member Is Offline
Location: cruising in denistone east
Theme: UltimaBB Streamlined2
Mood: indestructible? and listening to the voices
|
| posted on October 9th, 2012 at 03:18 PM |
|
|
more than likely too big in size. they need to be under 100kb to work
|
|
|
DubbyDo
A.k.a.: Dave
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 276
Threads: 45
Registered: January 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Pottsville NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: need more compreshunn!
|
| posted on October 9th, 2012 at 09:53 PM |
|
|
Thanks for the replies Barls and Lee, maybe (most likely) I'm doing it wrong, I've never posted a pic on a thread before, only when I've started
one. What I did was go to the new reply tab and it shows the add attachment option but it wouldn't open to even try to add the attachment.
|
|
|
DubbyDo
A.k.a.: Dave
Officially Full-On Dubber
Posts: 276
Threads: 45
Registered: January 8th, 2012
Member Is Offline
Location: Pottsville NSW
Theme: UltimaBB Pro Blue
Mood: need more compreshunn!
|
| posted on October 9th, 2012 at 09:56 PM |
|
|
After cutting off the old heater housing I refitted the stock tubes, they are some serious gauge tubing!!! Be nearly half the weight again of the empi
j tubes
|
|
|
