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Syngear Classic Drive System

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Syngear Casual Dubber

28 posts · joined Dec 2015 ·

#1022070
- low energy belt system
- less energy consumption than poly-v-belt
- crankshaft disc without groove made of cast nylon
- steel flange with oil centrifuge groove better than original type
- very good concentricity
- for temperature up to 120°C
- low heat conduction enables a low temperature operation of the belt
- easy removing of belt without tools in 3 seconds qualifies for 1/4 mile race
- good solution for aslant running belt
- video clip of operation: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xQOkyuS5sY
- for typ 1 engines with DC and AC generators
- full set with steel flange, adaptors, cast nylon disc and belt for 95 AUD
- all parts made in Germany
- top seller in Germany
- we ship from our depot in Germany world wide
- price includes shipping as small parcel
- use shop www.syngear.co.uk

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vwo60 Veteran Volks Folk

2,036 posts · joined Feb 2007 ·

#1022089
So now you drive on the face of the belt reducing the contact area instead of its intended vee, would not be capable of transmitting the power, what happens when the nylon reaches a temperature above 120 degrees C due to belt slip. I could possibly understand your logic if the material was aluminium or steel, I am a machinist and have made many item for my for cars over the years and there is nothing wrong with the vee belt to start with.

Newt Wolfsburg Wizard

478 posts · joined Mar 2008 ·

#1022105
Interestingly, they do do a steel belt option as well.

I ponder if that would give the required amount of belt slip?

Newt
It is as it is - If you didnt enjoy today, you've missed the opportunity.

Sunset Garage Officially Full-On Dubber

213 posts · joined Feb 2010 ·

#1022110
1. How do you adjust belt tension?
2. Do you still need to adjust belt tension with this system?
3. You design a completely new crank pulley for the new style belt and choose to simply adapt the V-Groove pulley? It may work, but looks a little dubious & half hearted. If you made a matching Generator/Alternator pulley specifically for the belt it would look more resolved.

vwo60 Veteran Volks Folk

2,036 posts · joined Feb 2007 ·

#1022113
Same as standard, it uses the same belt running on the inner flat surface.

Syngear Casual Dubber

28 posts · joined Dec 2015 ·

#1022256
Dear Aircooled Community,

the Syngear Classic Drive System using a nylon disc without groove and a stock v-belt was found per accident.

Since 2009 we at Syngear Ltd. have been running tests with our VW beetle for qualifying a steel belt made of very thin strip steel members fixed by arc shaped flat springs. The VW Beetle is just the demonstrator. The belt can be assembled by hand without any tooling. Because the belt members look like razor blades we call the Drive System "Syngear Razor Blade Drive System". You will find a youtube video clip when entering this term.

The steel belt broke at least 1000 times. This is real life testing. For coming home we used a stock belt and put it on the two nylon discs. So we learned that the material pair rubber-nylon shows some interesting results: there is enough friction also without groove and there is no debris. The notched stock belt is running on the nylon surface like a runner wearing rubber shoes on a nylon street. What is also very funny is the fact that within 3 seconds you can remove and install the belt (not during operation like in the famous youtube vidoe clip).

This configuration operates also like the steel belt with a very low energy consumption caused by deformation, which is much lower than caused by the wide spread poly-v-belt. To our understanding the use of the notched v-belt will bring better operation performance (lower energy consumption by deformation) than the poly-v-belt. Until now the automotve industry has not understood it. This is main stream behaviour.

The message is: the notched rubber belt running on a nylon surface without groove shows no debris, operates at very low temperatures (because of the low heat conduction rate of nylon), needs less energy than any other known configuration and can be removed by hand within seconds.

vwo60 Veteran Volks Folk

2,036 posts · joined Feb 2007 ·

#1022259
The use of the vee belt in this application is incorrect as it does not operate as designed, I cannot see how a vee belt running on its narrow flat face can transmit the power, if it slips as it will with any form of horse power increase it will raise the temperature well above the safe operating temperature of the nylon, as you stated at 120 degrees c, engine block temperature in Australia could easily reached this without much effort, add the belt slip because of the design and you will deform the nylon, I have machined this form of nylon many time and it is not a problem to heat it in the lathe and melt the material. I think I will stick with the standard notched vee belt running in top and bottom billet pulleys, as system that does the job without any issues.

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modnrod Fahrvergnugen

978 posts · joined Mar 2011 ·

#1022280
On the shady sheltered side of my front porch a few summers ago, it is not unusual at all..........

Syngear Casual Dubber

28 posts · joined Dec 2015 ·

#1022288
Dear vwo60,

This summer we had in Germany also environmental temperatures above 40°C which resulted in engine case temperatures of above 100°C. For the belt running on the nylon surface this was not a problem, because the contact temperature measured was just about 60°C because of the low heat conductivity of nylon.

We tested the Syngear Drive System near Manchester at a 150 Horse Power Type 1 Engine. The problem was not the lower disc made of nylon, the problem was the upper disc made of steel coated by a new zinc chromate layer. The tester was not patient enough to wait some seconds until this zinc chromate layer was removed but drove the engine with full speed. The result was: the belt was burnt on its side walls. the nylon contact surface showed no damage.

Nobody says the common system with grooved disc and v-belt is not working. The message is: this rendez-vous process between belt and groove causes additional friction.

(The engine shown on your image looks very professiona!)

Aircooled greetings

Ludwig Dierl
Syngear Engineering

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modnrod Fahrvergnugen

978 posts · joined Mar 2011 ·

#1022295
Syngear wrote:This summer we had in Germany also environmental temperatures above 40°C which resulted in engine case temperatures of above 100°C.
Ouch! I bet that hurt!

Interesting info, thank you.

vwo60 Veteran Volks Folk

2,036 posts · joined Feb 2007 ·

#1022297
Minimum friction of the original system is not that much, the fan takes considerable power to drive and you are running the belt on the flat on the inside , the belt in this case is being used for something it is no designed to do. good luck with the product but I do not think it is a long term solution. This is what my experience tells me with 40 years in all types of power transmission in industry

karmann141 Wolfsburg Wizard

485 posts · joined Aug 2009 ·

#1022305
Syngear wrote:Dear vwo60,

This summer we had in Germany also environmental...........


(The engine shown on your immage looks very professiona!)

Aircooled greetings

Ludwig Dierl
Syngear Engineering
The pictured engine is Vwo60 's 2.4L engine in his Karmann Ghia

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1961 K Ghia - Porsche 5 sp, EJ20T, Brembo's, Dble A arm susp
1974 L Bug - Porsche 944 brakes, Boxster 16's
1974 Bay Camper - EJ20, twin radiators, Boxster 16x7's
Half Beetle trailer with Boxster 16x7's
2011 Tiguan TDI 4Motion
2010 LR Discovery 4 TDV

Syngear Casual Dubber

28 posts · joined Dec 2015 ·

#1022323
Dear vwo60,

your Karmann Ghia looks really great!

It is our basic principle at Syngear to offer products only if they had withstood an hard qualification process. We finished prototyping after 50,000 miles with extreme environmental conditions.
The belt and the disc showed no wear. For now about 50 systems are running in Europe with a total mileage of about 500,000 miles with no failures reported.

Aircooled Greetings

Ludwig Dierl
Syngear Engineering

fish26 Fahrvergnugen

903 posts · joined Jul 2007 ·

#1022327
I would recommend a back to back dyno hp testing same engine, two different systems
bitten by the bug..........several times