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Disc Brake Conversion help in Sydney

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noblenick Casual Dubber

28 posts · joined Aug 2012 ·

#1039910
Hi, Is there anyone of you VW gurus, in Sydney (inner west area) willing to have a look at the disc brakes on my 1965 Beetle. They have been converted and using the Rod Penrose conversion kit with new MC and most of the lines replaced as well as new rear drum cylinders and brake fluid reservoir but the pedal still goes flat to the floor even after multiple bleedings. The brakes work when the pedal is flat to the floor but I just can;t get it to be where it should be.

Any assistance or advice would be greatly received.

Cheers in advance

Nick

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#1039911
Has the push rod free play rod been adjusted correctly
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

vwo60 Veteran Volks Folk

2,036 posts · joined Feb 2007 ·

#1039916
Power bleed the system, It will fix the problem if everything else is alright.

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#1039918
Rod Penrose conversion kit with new MC

What size is the bore of the MC and what size are the pistons in calipers

this is Front discs only the rears are still drums ???
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

noblenick Casual Dubber

28 posts · joined Aug 2012 ·

#1039930
The set-up is disc brakes set up front and original drums on back. I have replaced the cylinders in the back drums and also the brake fluid reservoir and all the lines to all brakes except the MC to rear brake area lines. (the lines to the rear brakes from where the original lines come out of the body have been replaced.)

Do you think it is the push rod due to the bore size difference?

noblenick Casual Dubber

28 posts · joined Aug 2012 ·

#1039931
The master cylinder that is included in this kit is the Bus master. This has a 22mm bore apparently. The stock Bug master, up until 1964 had a 19mm bore and for 65-66 it had a 17mm bore. I am assuming mine is the 17mm as it is a 1965 1300.

vwo60 Veteran Volks Folk

2,036 posts · joined Feb 2007 ·

#1039932
Power bleed the system

noblenick Casual Dubber

28 posts · joined Aug 2012 ·

#1039933
Hi, I have already power bled the system and the brake was still pretty much hitting the floor before the calipers stopped the discs and drums rotating.

silver Dangerous when poked

2,169 posts · joined Dec 2002 ·

#1039937
vw54 wrote:Has the push rod free play rod been adjusted correctly
check the push rod length!
Keeping it real !

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#1039938
OK so its 22mm MC which should be good for discs 3mm over stock size 68 and on

check the pushrod free play and make sure it fits the piston correctly

Did you replace all the rubber flex hoses ??
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

vwo60 Veteran Volks Folk

2,036 posts · joined Feb 2007 ·

#1039940
If there is an issue with the front calipers retracting you can fit residual check valves in the lines.

curvedscreen Learner Dubber

11 posts · joined Jan 2014 ·

#1039941
A couple of other things you might want to try Nick is that the bleeder nipples are at the top of the calipers and maybe isolate the front and rear brakes by gently clamping the rubber lines and see what happens

noblenick Casual Dubber

28 posts · joined Aug 2012 ·

#1039947
Thanks guys.. I replaced all the hoses to all 4 wheels and the front metal lines as well as the reservoir to MC hose.

I will check the push rod as I get the feeling it is too small at the moment but have never adjusted or replaced one before.

All 4 wheels lock up when brake is flat to the floor I just can't get the brake to work like normal with an inch or so free play before brakes take hold.

I'll try again when I can.

Thanks again for the tips.

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#1039949
The push rod when you press on the brake pedal should have about 20 to 25 mm of free play

You will feel it hitting the piston by hand use a 13mm spanner and some multi grips to adjust
make sure carpet and mats are out of the way
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#1039957
Adjusted the rear shoes up?

Menangler Custom Title Time!

1,991 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#1039959
curvedscreen wrote:A couple of other things you might want to try Nick is that the bleeder nipples are at the top of the calipers and maybe isolate the front and rear brakes by gently clamping the rubber lines and see what happens

Good advice, easily over looked,
I have had to take calipers off and bleed them with the bleed nipples pointing up, as when bolted to the mounts they were not quiet at the top and air was getting trapped making the pedal spongy, if you do this pack the pads out the same thickness as the disc or you'll pop out a piston.
FAHRVERGNUGEN;
Description of a pleasurable sensation,
Experienced when a car and it's driver are in mutual harmony, A unique driving experience, Pleasure, Satisfaction,
A feeling experienced by Volkswagen Drivers.

noblenick Casual Dubber

28 posts · joined Aug 2012 ·

#1039969
Thanks to you all for your advice. This will be my weekend project so if there is anything else I should look at in addition to the above please add it to the list:

The drum shoes have been adjusted as they should so the drum turns by hand when the pedal is not depressed but I can feel the resistance of the shoe on the inner drum.

I will look at the pushrod scenario first and then go from there.

I have 3 weeks before the pink slip becomes a required blue slip instead so I am keen to get this finished.

Thanks again

cnfabo Custom Title Time!

1,353 posts · joined Apr 2008 ·

#1039971
noblenick wrote:Thanks to you all for your advice. This will be my weekend project so if there is anything else I should look at in addition to the above please add it to the list:

The drum shoes have been adjusted as they should so the drum turns by hand when the pedal is not depressed but I can feel the resistance of the shoe on the inner drum.

I will look at the pushrod scenario first and then go from there.

I have 3 weeks before the pink slip becomes a required blue slip instead so I am keen to get this finished.

Thanks again
I haven't read the whole thread but make sure handbrake cables are adjusted enough too... I had a problem bleeding brakes once, me and my mates were scratching each other's heads.. Turns out cables could have been tightened up some more....

noblenick Casual Dubber

28 posts · joined Aug 2012 ·

#1039983
Hi all,

So I made progress with the brake push rod by adjusting it however it needed adjusting almost all the way to able to have the brake pedal work as it should.

This left it looking quite precarious so I backed it off a little and then started the bleeding scenario again.
I power bled the system all but the new passenger front disc brake bled nicely. This one seems to go on for ages and still has some bubbles in the line.
The pedal now travels almost to the floor again.
The handbrake is nicely adjusted.
The car stops nicely but the pedal is almost to the floor with the push rod pretty much maxed out.

Can you buy longer push rod anywhere as this is a 22mm bore Master cylinder and the pedal and push rod are originals from a 17mm bore MC?

If anyone is in Sydney area and fancies having a crack at this for some $ or beers let me know as I think I am close.

Cheers

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#1039987
You could get some 8mm Booker rod from Bunnings to make a new rod or you could cut down a 8mm bolt and fit inside the piston and have the original rod sit on top of it it carnt fall out will act like a spacer

however something isn't right the original should still fit and be long enough
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#1040013
If your push rod is too short move your pedals closer to the bulkhead, they are adjustable

back off the handbrake and only adjust it after the rear shoes are adjusted properly

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#1040050
So have you found the problem Let us know what happened
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#1040107
are they VW calipers? What size pistons do they use? Ive rub 4 spot Porsche brakes all round with a stock 19 mm MC

noblenick Casual Dubber

28 posts · joined Aug 2012 ·

#1040128
Hi Guys,

I haven't completed the task yet but will let you know when I have as you have all been very helpful.

Cheers