i am planning on building a motorkhana/khanacross car for club racing. does anyone out there race this type of events? if so how is your car set up? i have looked at the stuff in the back of the "how to hotrod" book but am interested in first hand experience.
this will be a very very low budget project (hopefully no more than 4-500)... apart from what i already have to suit an early 60's car (sway bar, camber compensator/flop straps, stiff shocks, adjusters, 4 wheel disc brakes, harnesses, sports wheel, quick steer, wide rims etc. plus some mild go faster bits for the motor) my only intended costs are a base car and poss a 1600dp (or a rebuild for my mild 1776) plus odds and ends.
any suggestions welcome.
thanks.
henry.
The most successful Motorkahna cars I have seen are front wheel drive hybrids, they are mini motors with a seat and a small rear with a handbrake.
I have found from doing Motorkahnas that an oversteering car works best as you can throw it around the pegs rather than fight it all the way.
I dont know how you would get a rear engined car to be competitive.
vwrallycar. i am hoping to use a late 6V car. basically prob a 61-67, though if a 58-60 comes up and is nasty enough that i don't mind killing it, i'll use that. i know a 1500 would prob be better but all the parts i have are for 6V cars, plus as i am moving to the country most of the cars that you find on properties are 6V.
Herbie, with the rear weight bias in a vw you can (i believe) get them to flick around the marks really well. i know that there were alot of sucessfull autocross/motorkhana vw's in the 60's so if i can learn to drive it well enough it should be competitive. also it is just club level so what i will be racing against are mostly old corollas with the odd dato (not 1600), a mazda 808, a 70's lancer, plus a few FWD cars. none of which have had more than $1000 spent on them.... so it is not like i'll be going up against big $ serious race cars.
even if i was, i'm getting involved with this as it is the cheapest form of motorsport i've seen. i could never financially keep up with big $ cars but from what i have seen of the club no one would care. everyone is just out to have fun with a little mild competitiveness for the points challange.
now for my set up ideas...
the car will be built for motorkhana's and khanacross only so street legallity and high speed stabillity are not an issue.
an all steel car, no bumpers, interior, sound proofing, back seat, spare wheel, headlights etc. prob keep the wipers and washers. no winder mechs. poss if i can get the plastic cheap, lexan windows (would go one piece in the front doors). hoodjax etc. with ballest added to suit handling.
rims and tyres. i have 6? 14" widened rims and lots of standard rims. i was thinking of running the 14's on the skid pan (prob with thier crappy old hard tyres but there is a possibillity of getting some old hill climb slicks that might be ok with some tyre prep)(or the slicks at the front and old hard tyres at the back to make it slide easily) eventually i might pick up some part worn 15" ex rally tyres for the dirt stuff but that is in the future.
front end. adjusters, but not lowered that much to keep it paddock friendly (plus the 14"s will lower it a little on the hard stuff) hopefully i should have a set of sloppy k & l pins to set it up with neg camber. toe in? castor? my old shermins discs or standard drums depending on if i want the discs for something else. a 19mm swaybar, but if it has too much understeer and i can't tune it out i'll go back to a stock bar. either silver kyb's (v v hard) or stock shocks. eventually, the front beam braced back to the body corners, to stop it getting bent thrashing over rough paddocks (khanacross). quick steer kit.
back end. forks braced to the body. new(ish) rubber bushes (i've got them).prob lowered a little to get the neg camber but this might get changed depending on the body roll and how the back end sticks. prob flop straps as the camber compensator i have is is a NOS 60's thing so i don't want to waste it on a bodgy race car. the flop straps would prob be set to allow about 1/2 to 1 deg -ve camber. toe in/out? but prob a fair amount but how much and which way?
either shermans rear discs or standard drums (poss T3 if i'm feeling rich) T3 would prob be the best. silver kyb's or stock shocks.
when i think about it i prob wouldn't run the shermans brakes on either end as they are so heavy.
dual circut master cylinder, fly off handbrake, poss cutting brakes.
stock 12/1300 6V gearbox. will prob make a steel brace to mount over one sideplate to try and save the R&P. might consider welding up the diff if i'm having too many traction probs with an open diff. prob stock mounts for starters but might go solid when i/if i get around to making up some.
inside. harnesses. if i can find some cheap, some high back seats out of ???. hopefully some sort of roll over protection (not a club requirement but nice to have) , prob a sports wheel, a quick shift kit. a tacho till i get used to the engine noises. poss a oil temp gauge.
for the motor... prob for starters i'll try and pick up a running 1600dp. add my kads, 009, non merged extractors and j pipes, either a pobjoy sump, windage pushrod tubes or both (the pobjoy sump would need a bash plate for the khanacross), shimmed springclips on the rocker shafts. ie nothing special. for the future i would prob port up a set of heads with HD single springs and maybe a little higher comp, but this wouldn't be for starters. if i could get it done without splitting the case i'd like to 8 dowel the crank. i have a v.light (8-9lb) flywheel but would prob stick with a stock one. i have a mild 1776 but by the time i fully rebuilt it i would be way over budget, so it might get fitted at a later date. (still i'd rather spend the cash on my streetcar project).
hope that this gives you some ideas on what i'm thinking.... any thoughts and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
for khanacross and motor khana, i run stiffer standard suspension, with 24mm rear sway bar for motokhana, as it allows the rear end to swinga round more. BUt iam talking L bug with mac strut and irs rear.
busbay, i have thought about laying up a set of stock style thin fiberglass panels, but if it happened it would be a while in the future as my first aim is the get a car and get it running so i can go out and play.
You'd be better off using an IRS car. If you can find a donor superbug you may as well graft the back of the pan onto your current item (I'm assuming the body is coming off for the bracing and such?).
Swingaxle cars really, REALLY tuck the rear wheels under when the handbrake is yanked. And I'f you're going IRS I'd cut the shock mounts off the trailing arms, flip em upside down and then side for side your trailing arms, you'll want to lower the car and this will keep it at 0 or near 0 camber.
Type3 squareback torsion bars, or 944 if you have $$$ to burn (use the swaybar off a 944 too, they're not cheap but you can sometimes find them for a steal). This will make your arse end nice and stiff and with the already rear bias you'll pivot the back around without a prob.
Individual handbrakes. Or two brake pedals, one for the rear, one for the front and press the two together for all four.
Motorkhanas are very cheap, quick runs. So I would'nt look at spending alot of time effort or money on a car for one. You could take a standard beetle, lower it and be competitive. However if it's your first venture into motorsport and you're looking at stepping upto building a track car in the future, then go for it since you'll learn HEAPS along the way!
I actually drove a friends kombi last night and with the extra weight in the back it was sliding a treat!
If you could get an auto (an auto would be best for a motorkhana, being a short stint and having to nearly stop-go all the time) Type4 powered kombi I'd rip the running gear out of it and chuck it in your beetle. Would take a fair bit of fabrication, so perhaps if you're handy with the grinder and welder you could cut the rear suspension and drivetrain mounts out of a donor kombi and weld them into your beetle? It would be crude, but make it nice and solid, tied into the body like nothing else and you should'nt have a prob. Plus scrutineering at motorkhanas is very laid back, so specials are normally encouraged. Then just leave the type4 without any cooling (see short stint statement) and it would be a nice torquey little special 😀
But that's just me thinking out loud. My Dad used to do heaps of motorkhanas in beetles, so he'd be the guy to ask. If you want to e-mail me any questions you have I can pass them onto him.
thanks for the ideas cam. i'll stick with the swing axle for now (it's what i have... plus what i have spares for).
i'll prop e.mail you with q's as i'm sure to have lots.
henry.
Craig Torrens6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
craig, if you actually ever called me back at some stage you might know 🙂
for anyone else who is intersted. things are moving but i have been waiting till i can get some of the suspension parts up from sydney, which is happening this weekend.
starting to get things ready to do the rust (ie cutting bits out and making templates for the bits to go in). have worked out and sketched up the front beam braces, the rear g'box mount (solid)/fork brace mount, front g'box mount (solid also) and the strengthener for the rear parcel tray (to mount the other end of the fork braces). etc.
henry.
Craig Torrens6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
once again if you called me back you would know the situation....
as you are hinting at, no it isn't done yet. been too buisy learning to live as part of a family and be a parient... strange things afoot... even starting to learn to be responsible.
cars have been religated to a lower position. i keep telling myself no playing car till the house is sorted, two active imaginative girls under ten on school holidays = always something to do, clean, wash or put away.
*edit* you could say it is on the dirt as we speak.... the garage really needs to be swept.... they have lost access to the property where they held the khanacrosses so all the events will be held at the armidale skid pan untill a new venue for the khanacrosses is found.
craig, if you take your car to tamworth this year and it coencides with a khana you should come up and give a demo of what a high hp vw can do. prob less than $30 entry fee for a days racing.
Craig Torrens6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Craig Torrens wrote:call back !! That means I have to use a phone, no time for that.😀 Computer or nothing:thumb from me !
Slow learner !!.............................. Tamworth is no longer running 🙁😠:cry
I'm only going to run events close to home, and I've spent 8 years showing people how a hypo VW goes :thumb
Sounds like your VW days are over !
That's why I'm doing all my playing before I have Kids, I guess its harder when you enter a relationship with Kids already there. Maybe teach them to work on the car and to sweep floors 😀😀
