Gearbox Options?

yAlDaRA Learner Dubber

7 posts · joined Dec 2002 · 6 Dec 2002, 2:31 am

#13278

Hey Guys!

Okay Im kind of new to all of this, im not very mechanically minded, although its something im trying to learn.

I own a Purvis Eureka.
Its running a PVR b-27 engine. (2.7L V6 volvo 260series).
Anyway, the gearbox in it was totally shagged when I bought it, crunched quite frequently... you have to hold it in 4th.
Apparently its a Beetle gearbox with an adapter plate. Well tonight it died... gave it some stick draggin my mate and it just died. It still works... although now it makes a like bumping/clunking noise when in gear.

Anyway I think that its going to need replacing. I want something that is 5spd and can take atleast 150hp or so.
I dont really want to spend huge mega bucks on anything porsche, although I will listen to all the options avaliable and talk through them with some mechanics in Perth. (anyone can recommend one they have used b4 would be nice).

Will anything just bolt straight on that will fit without too many hassles?

I dont really want to spend over $2000... although Im not sure what that will get me... What do you all think?

Thanks!
Owen Ruck.

kombi_kid Moderator Good Kid too many projects

124 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 6 Dec 2002, 2:57 pm

#13330

hey
a 2L kombi box out of a kombi made from 76-79 (correct me here if im wrong) can handle upto 200HP they are only 4 speed though 🙁 they only cost for a good one around $600. they may need a little work to fit in but well worth it!
cheers
rhys

it aint just cool its aircool'd

yAlDaRA Learner Dubber

7 posts · joined Dec 2002 · 6 Dec 2002, 3:01 pm

#13332

Thanks Kombi Kid!
I've been praying all day that someone would reply... I dont want to sound totally stupid when I call places and ask them about gearbox's.

Yeh 4 spd will do... for that price.
Does anyone know to hit reverse if you have to Push down and then goto Left or right? Hopefully they are just to the far right and down.

Doug Sweetman Nil Bastardo Carborundum

2,128 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 6 Dec 2002, 3:41 pm

#13333

down and to left for reverse in all VW gearboxes......

yAlDaRA Learner Dubber

7 posts · joined Dec 2002 · 6 Dec 2002, 3:51 pm

#13335

Bugger!
The reason I was hoping it wasnt like that is because the part the gearstick fits into on my car doesnt have anything to stop the gearstick from spinning 360 degrees... which doesnt matter when you have a straight gearstick, although mine is bent so It fits in the console and is reachable. This ment that it could just turn around in like a massive circle.

The way we solved this problem was by removing the spring and part that pushes down and have it on the bottom at the whole time and then welded spots on it so it couldnt turn. It works okay, although if your not careful and you go a little bit left when going into 2nd you can hit reverse :/

Perhaps I will pull the it out while the engine is out of the car and fit the old style that has the little groove for the stick with a knobby bit on the end. That way it wont be able to rotate.

aussiebug Officially Full-On Dubber

246 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 6 Dec 2002, 4:43 pm

#13344

As you say, the early VWs have cranked gear sticks and the ball on the bottom has a peg which fits into a slot in the cup (on the shift rod) to stop it turning.

All shift rods I've seen have the slot in the cup, but the later VWs with the straight shifter just don't use any peg to anchor it.

Re the type4 gearboxes - I'm not sure you'll be able to get decent ratios for the Eureka - I think they'll be too low (for pulling a heavy body with a modest engine).

You'll need to check that out before you buy.

You can get stronger parts for the internals of VW gearboxes, so you may be able to get one rebuilt to take that kind of power reliably.

They are quite tough and can take a lot more than the VW engine supplies, in stock form, but may have trouble with 150hp continuously.

Yopu can get "Berg 5 speed" VW gearboxes from the USA, but these have the 5th gear with the same ratio as the 4th on the normal box - in other words you just have a close ratio box with the same final gearing.

I assume you have a swiing axle gearbox? There are two final drive ratios available - 4.3785 and 4.125 - might be worth checking which you have, as with that power and the light car the 4.125 would be better.

If you have IRS, the gearbox which goes with that has 3.875 final drive (and a 0.93 4th in lieu of the earlier 0.89), and this gives slightly taller gearing again.

Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com

aussiebug Officially Full-On Dubber

246 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 6 Dec 2002, 4:45 pm

#13345

Sorry - those final drive ratios should read 4.375 and 4.125.

Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com

yAlDaRA Learner Dubber

7 posts · joined Dec 2002 · 6 Dec 2002, 5:22 pm

#13355

Okay, by the sounds of it I might just need to get this gearbox rebuilt with some really good performance parts.

From what I can find in the engineering reports and rego conversion reports that came with my car: "The diff ratio was modified to a slawer revving engine at cruising speed. It was changed from : 4.00/1 to 3.88/1 ration with an overdrive standard to V.W.. of 0.92 to 0.88, a change of 1 tooth in top gear."

It is the Swingaxle gearbox.
(what are the differences between swingaxle and irs?)

Also I have also found that Diff has been upgraded to a 4 pinion instead of a 2 pinion... im not too sure what that means :P

Thanks for the help guys, I need to learn about this kinda stuff pretty damn quick... its the only car I got... luckily its nice weather for riding my motorcycle around!

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 6 Dec 2002, 5:52 pm

#13358

OK, if you have a swingaxle then that is the only gearbox you can use.

My advice would be to convert to IRS so you can use a stronger gearbox and have a safer better handling car.

You mean 4 spider gears not 2, that means it is a superdiff. The standard swingaxle is very weak and the standard 2 spider gears break easily (I broke 2 sets when my car was swingaxle).

If I were you I would convert to IRS and use a 2lt type 2, 6 rib, 091, kombi gearbox (all it's various names together).

Over xmas I will finish putting a 200HP V6 in my baja. I am using a 2lt kombi gearbox, with the real late model 4 spider diff for it, and an Albin 0.70:1 ratio 4th gear set so I can cruise along the highway at very low rpm.

For more gearbox info read
http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Dunes/9702/transtalk.html

Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

yAlDaRA Learner Dubber

7 posts · joined Dec 2002 · 6 Dec 2002, 7:30 pm

#13380

I have been reading... So all the beetles in 1969 came out with IRS?
I dont know if I have IRS or Swingaxle... How am I supposed to tell the difference?

On the original papers it says it was a 1969 chassis... although now it is registered as a 1964.

I find all this very confusing *sigh*

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 7 Dec 2002, 10:40 am

#13437

Some cars up to 71 had swingaxle just to make things confusing. I think some purist vw person will tell you more.

If you jack the back wheels off the ground, and the wheels go onto weird angles, you probably have a swingaxle.

IRS uses 4 CV joints. A swingaxle has no CV joints.

Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

twobus Commited Dubber

72 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 7 Dec 2002, 5:26 pm

#13471

Re the type4 gearboxes - I'm not sure you'll be able to get decent ratios for the
Eureka - I think they'll be too low (for pulling a heavy body with a modest engine).

I don't think you'll have any problems with the ratio's as I would assume that the volvo v6 would rev a whole lot faster than a standard type 4 engine.
cheers

[Edited on 7-12-2002 by twobus]

Twobus! when one is not enough

OvalGlen Custom Title Time!

1,361 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 7 Dec 2002, 11:00 pm

#13543

Doug Sweetman is looking for 5 speed as well. He said " I've had a quick look into the 901 and 915 boxes - from what I've been able to find they are both a relatively straightforward swap and give a good result, but both boxes are at least $2500 +, and I dont know how much for parts......

so yeah, I've looked into them but I dont have the $$ for them. Plus I like to be a bit different

I could just turn the subaru tranny upside down, and dry sump it...... "
-
I am eager to see what can be done. My car will need some tall gearing when finished.

Regards,Glenn>

aussiebug Officially Full-On Dubber

246 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 8 Dec 2002, 9:59 am

#13599

yAlDaRA wrote:I have been reading... So all the beetles in 1969 came out with IRS?
I dont know if I have IRS or Swingaxle... How am I supposed to tell the difference?

On the original papers it says it was a 1969 chassis... although now it is registered as a 1964.

I find all this very confusing *sigh*

There IS some confusion here, because the US got IRS suspensions before we did in Aus.

In the USA...
semi-autos got the IRS suspension in 1968 and the manuals got it in 1969.

In Aus and the "rest" of the world...
The semi-autos got IRS in 1968 and the manuals got it in 1971.

The IRS is actually a misonmer because ALL beetles have Indepedent Rear Suspension, but some are swing axles (pivoted only at the gearbox) and some are Double Joint Rear Axles, with a CV joint at the gearbox and behind the brake hub assembly - so the wheels moved up and down vertically rather than the arc of the swing axles.

Changing a car from swing axle to IRS is possible but not easy - you have to have a diagonal link welded to the inner ends of the torsion bar tubes, as the IRS brake hub assembly no longer has the fixed length of axle tube (the swing axle) to provide "location".

The Swing axle gearboxes work only with swing axles, and the IRS gearbox work only with IRS suspensions.

Anyone know if you can put the IRS type 0.93 4th and 3.875 final drive into a swing axle gearbox???

THAT would give better gearing for a Purvis Eureka (light body/high speeds need taller gearing).

Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com

Che Castro ankle straps

1,945 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 8 Dec 2002, 12:03 pm

#13611

oh yeah swing axle trannies are a PITA to take out compared to the IRS. with the swing axle u have to take out the box as well as the axles as well as the drums and brake lines. then when u put it back in u gotta line up the axles bleed brakes etc.

Jon

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 8 Dec 2002, 12:09 pm

#13612

You can actually convert a bus IRS box to swingaxle. Dave Folts in the US sells a kit. They use them in sand buggies and drag cars so that they get the strength of the bus box with the simplicity/lightweight/strength of a swingaxle. Saves having to buy 930 CV's all the time.

Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

kombi_kid Moderator Good Kid too many projects

124 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 8 Dec 2002, 4:59 pm

#13639

whats needed to put a 2L kombi box into an IRS Beetle pan???
cheers
rhys
p.s. what guy does the really really strong gears for 2L box's and costs around $1000?????

it aint just cool its aircool'd