Need Help!! Beetle Generator and Audio Sound System

ikube Wolfsburg Wizard

580 posts · joined Feb 2004 · 15 Mar 2004, 2:37 pm

#150799

Hi!

I am facing a problem, I have no idea whats going to happen. I am planning on installing a Sound system in my beelte, it's a restored 1959 model with 12 Volt. I have no idea if i can install the following due to the Generator? If the generator can hold what I'm going to install. If you have experience on these, please advise!

I want to install: 240 Watt Back Speakers and Front 180 Watt and a Head Unit. just something simple. whats the Maximum i can take out from a beetle's generator with 12 Volt System?

Please let me know if this will suit my beetle or I actually need to customize/ change the Generator or a Alternator ?
Or the original one will do with the 12 Volt ? I just know that it has a clean Generator.

My email is: pm5500@hotmail.com

Really need your help!
Thank You!

Kind Regards,

Don.

modulus Veteran Volks Folk

2,009 posts · joined Jul 2003 · 15 Mar 2004, 2:56 pm

#150801

Hi Don,
On the surface, it looks like you have 2 x 240 Watts out the back, 2 x 180 Watts up front for a grand total of 840 Watts, which at 12 Volts is 70 Amps, more than the total output of your generator (probably about 45 Amps).

However, don't despair, because:
- you probably won't be putting a kilowatt of amplifier in to drive these speakers
- these figures are 'peak musical power' not continuous output and, for calculation purposes, the figures are as useful as feathers to a fish
- these "peak" outputs only actually occur in the salesmens' wet dreams
- at the peak output levels in a Bug your ears will be bleeding, so state of the generator won't be your main concern
- these hypothetical figures are only achievable at levels of total harmonic distortion which would be enough to make bagpipes sound like music.

A 'normal' head unit puts out about 50 Watts/channel into 4 channels, but guess what; these are 'peak' figures as well.

I think you'll probably draw about 50 Watts RMS at pretty loud levels, which is about 4 Amps from your generator, and it'll probably cope without big issues. Try it and see.

hth

[Edited on 15-3-2004 by modulus]

Peter Hill
1975 Type 2 Double Cab
modulus.com.au

ikube Wolfsburg Wizard

580 posts · joined Feb 2004 · 15 Mar 2004, 6:01 pm

#150857

Thanks hth,

it's not total of 840 watt I believe. 240 watt total for both and 180 watt for both front. So with a total of 420 watt.
So basically I can carry on my Bug Jam dream right now ? I will try installing it. Risking the $, hope everything will turn out good.

Thank You,

Kind Regards,

Don.

$2.63 homebrand baja

0 posts · joined Feb 2004 · 15 Mar 2004, 7:55 pm

#150910

out of curiosity what would you do if you did want to put something bigger in? say amp, subwoofer etc? I have 1600tp and have amp etc waiting in the wings... 🙂

modulus Veteran Volks Folk

2,009 posts · joined Jul 2003 · 15 Mar 2004, 8:15 pm

#150922

Even with an amp you're not necessarily in trouble.

Even with a *big* setup you will draw more than your generator can supply while you're running the system. This supply deficit will be drawn from the battery. When your ears fall off and you turn it down or off, your generator will start replenishing the battery's deficit.

In general, unless you're running at extreme sound pressure levels for extended periods of time, the actual wattage drawn will be modest, *very* modest compared with the fairytale numbers that are bandied around in the industry.

The guys who are running the serious setups generally run them off a separate deep-cycle battery, more suited to this type of load; the principles involved are very similar to those discussed in the camping-oriented project at the other website,

http://www.aussiekombicampers.com/camping_electrics.shtml

deals with camping issues, but also gives an overview of battery loads and battery management approaches.

To get a really accurate idea of loads and battery strain, you need to get an idea of real system consumption (no, not the orange numbers on the box...) and estimate how many hours you're going to have it on etc.

hth

Peter Hill
1975 Type 2 Double Cab
modulus.com.au

ikube Wolfsburg Wizard

580 posts · joined Feb 2004 · 16 Mar 2004, 4:48 am

#151079

Hi $2.63 homebrand baja,

My dream setup: 12" 600 Watt Sub -- 350 Watt 6 x 9" Rear -- 200 Watt Front Splitz -- 4 Channel Amp -- Head Unit

But now I guess I only can afford to dream of these item, since I don't want to stand in the middle of the freeway waiting for help :P

Also not giving my bug a hard time.

I have 2 other options, please give me some advise which will suit, or actually both of them will suit ?

Lower End:
1.
- Pioneer 240 Watt 6 x 9" Rear
- Pioneer 180 Watt Front Splitz
- Head Unit

Higher End
2.
- Kenwood 300 Watt 7 x 10" Rear
- Kenwood 200 Watt Front Splitz
- Head Unit

Can I fit the Higher End one ? or my bug would still have a hard time?

Also one last question to all:
If I am going to install a Alpine V12 4 Channel Amp will it draw extra Power from my car compare to running all speakers off head unit itself ?

Thank You!

Kind Regards,

Don.

ikube Wolfsburg Wizard

580 posts · joined Feb 2004 · 16 Mar 2004, 4:56 am

#151080

Hi Modulus,

Thanks for your information! Really helpful! Just want to ask, what happens if a Big system are installed and for example, some dude pump the audio system for let say half a day or more with a loud volume but not to Max, until the battery/generator can't stand it. What will happen next ? Car goes off or the Audio system goes off ? I am talking about the car running and not sitting in a position when playing music. Just want to see what happens, so I get an idea.

Also what you think about my last post about which system I can install ? Please let me know!

If after installing the System and problems still occure, will a Alternator be suitable anytime to take over my Generator ?

Sorry for being a dumb a$$ here, I am really new to these Car Audio stuff... And needs lotsa advise before heading towards one!

Thank You,

Kind Regards,

Don.

Bootman Casual Dubber

26 posts · joined Mar 2004 · 16 Mar 2004, 5:06 am

#151082

Usually the powered deck units are more than adequate for most car stereo applictions. The basic rule to apply to speakers is, more power from the amp wont damage the speakers, under wattage blows speakers.

All you need to do is hear the speaker system whilst driving over the exhaust and road noise. The standard 4x 50 watt units will do this happily. Buy lesser rated speakers in terms of high wattage. that is a set of 60 to 80 watt speakers, 2 way or 3 way will do a much better job than a set of 180watt speakers. They will drawing less power, run more efficiently and give you more volume from your unit.

The main thing is not to be confused and bamboozled by the big numbers, they really don't mean very much at the end of the day. A $400 to $500 mp3/cd player and radio unit by Kenwood or Pioneer will be fine, more than loud enough if you buy your speakers accordingly.

Hope this helps.
Bootman

Mad Manx KombiKroozin

456 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 16 Mar 2004, 8:08 am

#151124

Anyone wanting to amp their system I recomend puting in an alternator first (this comes from personal expirence with my T1 and T3) The vw genny doesn't charge at all at idle- only while driving above a set rpm. If you have other drawing extras such as upgraded headlights or spotties u will either need to install an alternator or buy some jumper leads. The stock system is fine in theory but most of us are using 30-40 year old components that arnt quiet the same now as when they were new. I only had 2 7x10's and a pair of 6 inch splits in my beetle along with a small amp for the 7x10's but along with my spotties I had many a flat battery cause there just wasnt enough power for everything.

[Edited on 15-3-2004 by Mad Manx]

- '71 Kombi (Died 24/11/05😢 ) - '65 manx (smick) -'63 beetle (bent) -'73 Singlecab (new to the stable)

ikube Wolfsburg Wizard

580 posts · joined Feb 2004 · 16 Mar 2004, 8:58 am

#151157

Hey Mad Manx,

Are there a certain Alternator I need to look for ? Or just normal one will do?
If you have any source please let me know as well 🙂

Kind Regards,

Don.

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 16 Mar 2004, 10:15 am

#151180

ikube wrote:My dream setup: 12" 600 Watt Sub -- 350 Watt 6 x 9" Rear -- 200 Watt Front Splitz -- 4 Channel Amp -- Head Unit

Similar to what I am running... 800W 12" sub, 350W 6x9's, 250W 6" fronts, 2 channel amp/crossover for the sub, 4x50W head unit.

That system used to run ok on a VW alternator, but stuggled when the high-beam was turned on.

I should point out, your 12V generator will be either a 30amp beetle unit, or a 38amp kombi unit. I have run both and they both died.

I then went to VW alternators, they range from 51-55amp. They replace the generator, but you need a different generator stand too. They are much more reliable than the generators.

Then you can just stick a normal car alternator on somewhere and use the orginal generator as an idler pulley. I don't recommend this set-up, it looks ugly and dodgy.

Then my current set-up is a 90amp alternator, which is standard on my V6.

Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

ikube Wolfsburg Wizard

580 posts · joined Feb 2004 · 16 Mar 2004, 10:23 am

#151188

hey Baja Wes,

Thanks for sharing your experience!
So now if I want something not as powerful as yours, just 300 watt 7 x 10" and 200 Watt 6" Front + head unit, I'll be only looking for a 51-55amp Alternator ? How much you think it will cost me?
I posted a Wanted ad in Buying and Selling, hope someone can offer me one @ a reasonably good price, so I can spend some extra dollars on Carpet etc 🙂

Cheers~

Don.

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 16 Mar 2004, 12:44 pm

#151232

I've bought two 2nd hand VW alternators with mounting stands, they cost me $150 each on seperate occasions. So that is a ball park figure.

The good thing about the alternators is that they have solid state regulators, which are nice and reliable.

You will need some minor wiring mods to fit the alternator, but they are relatively straight forward. Just note that there are two main type of VW type 1 alternators - (1) internal regulator, so it only has 2 terminals/wires on the unit. 1 to B+ and the other to the warning light.
(2) external regulator, has about 4 terminals on it. 1 to B+, and the other 3 to the external solid state regulator, then the warning light off of that.

Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

ikube Wolfsburg Wizard

580 posts · joined Feb 2004 · 16 Mar 2004, 5:40 pm

#151392

Hello,

Someone offered me a Used Original Bosch Alternator shipping from NSW to Vic. Just want to ask without looking at the unit itself what do I have to know? Any technical information I need to ask before getting it & using it with a new stereo system ?

Hope someone can give me a hand ... I really have no idea about this..

Thanks Heaps!

Cheers~

Don.