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A bit of Kübelwagen info for the new to the scene

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VWFREAK VWFREAK

2,577 posts · joined May 2004 ·

#216083
As early as January of 1938, moves were afoot to produce a military version of the Beetle for the war that lie ominously ahead.

There were many, many prototypes, but eventually two main vehicles emerged as the war-time KdF-Wagens. They were the Kübelwagen (literally, "bucketcar", but actually an abbreviated version of Kübelsitzewagen, "bucket seated car") and the Schwimmwagen ("swim car").

The latter was an amphibious vehicle with a rear-mounted propeller for water navigation. Only 14,283 were produced. The Kübelwagen was much more plentiful and practical than the Schwimmwagen. It is an extremely austere, rugged automobile built simply for war-use.

About 50,000 were made. Survivng examples of both cars are scarce and very collectible. Production was from 1940-44 for the Kübel and 42-44 for the "Schwimmer".

[Edited on 11-8-2004 by Bone Collector]

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Anthiron The Baja Rejuvenation Begins

4,936 posts · joined Oct 2003 ·

#216088
.

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62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom

Yogie Moderator Custom Title Time!

1,609 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·

#216225
I wish I had one of each. :vader

lil dub Type3 Stylist

648 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#216271
ahhh...thanks bone_collector and anthiron!
i like it so much when people post up stuff that i never knew about and was too afraid to ask....(for fear of looking like a stupid girl...but you guys already kinda know that so i don't know why i bother to hide...heheh)
anyway - thanks! thor
.

Anthiron The Baja Rejuvenation Begins

4,936 posts · joined Oct 2003 ·

#216274
um i didnt really have anything to do with it thor i just posted a pic lol
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom

lil dub Type3 Stylist

648 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#216281
hmm...point taken....
but pictures speak louder than words no?
think of it as an extra hug for all the other info you have given me re:volkswagens in a way that hasn't ever made me feel stupid....(?)
i dunno. sorry nick...wont ever thankyou again ehehehehheh.
.

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#216292
The schwimmwagen had 4 wheel drive in first gear only, to help it drive out of the water...

The germans found that a light 2 wheel drive vehicle could go just about anywhere a 4 wheel drive heavier jeep could go... as Rommell proved in the deserts of Africa etc....

I like to watch War documentaries as the Germans had so many different Vehicles ... like motor cycles with tracks either side, those must have been hard to steer.... I suppose it was really a trike with rear tracks instead of wheels...
They seemed to like using tracks instead of rear wheels on many vehicles from large cars to trucks...
but the allies never ventured to tracks except on Tanks or armoured troop carriers, bren gun carriers etc.... but never on a normal vehicle.....

Lee

pic of camouflaged Beetle 🙂🙂 circa 1968 🙂🙂

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- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

Anthiron The Baja Rejuvenation Begins

4,936 posts · joined Oct 2003 ·

#216305
.
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom

VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome

5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·

#216673
I saw one today! Super-rare... super cool
Pay your debts, CxxT

VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome

5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·

#216675
damn - pic didn't work

[Edited on 12-8-2004 by VWCOOL]
Pay your debts, CxxT

Oasis Going alone...

1,806 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·

#216756
Did they have cable brakes??? Like early bugs?
"Tell him 'We've already got one'"

VWFREAK VWFREAK

2,577 posts · joined May 2004 ·

#216916
Vic of 110 vw's in sydney has one for sale at the moment, need a lot of work, but it would be worth it.$$$$$$$$$$$

Anthiron The Baja Rejuvenation Begins

4,936 posts · joined Oct 2003 ·

#216918
would be awesome to get the gearbox and 4wd gear from the front end etc and wack it into my baja for the 4wd in 1st that would be so cool
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom

kombi_kid Moderator Good Kid too many projects

124 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#217091
i think andrew dodds has one of each
cheers
rhys
it aint just cool its aircool'd

Schnellbug Learner Dubber

9 posts · joined Jul 2004 ·

#217206
The first "public" appearance of a Kubelwagan was at the Berlin Motor Show in 1936. A previous design and 2 prototypes were built in early 1935. Mr Hitler and Mr Porsche knew what was comming...

The allies also used weird tracked vehicles such as the German NSU Kettenkrad. These include French tracked motorbikes and the OEC, halftrack jeep, white halftrak, Weasle and others.

The German NSU Kettenkrad (tracked motorcycle) is a wonder of engineering and steers brilliantly. Top speed of just over 70kph, faster than a sptitty ute.

VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome

5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·

#217255
Oasis wrote:Did they have cable brakes??? Like early bugs?
No - hydraulics
Pay your debts, CxxT

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#217402
Have You seen pictures of the first Beetles put together under British Occupation Forces?

Using Kubelwagen chassis... Very High off the ground with their 16 inch wheels.... would have been good for rallying....

I have never seen any of the allies using tracked trucks etc..
all wheeled vehicles...
The Germans seemed to be able to build whatever they liked.... 6 wheeled cars or anything with tracks....
NSU - DKW - BMW - Daimler-Benz [Mercedes] - Zundapp - Steyr of Austria..
plus many other smaller companies...

I will try to find a pic of a British early Beetle- post war..
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

Schnellbug Learner Dubber

9 posts · joined Jul 2004 ·

#217591
The kubels and all other war time variants had cable brakes.

Kubel Rat Casual Dubber

30 posts · joined Mar 2003 ·

#273017
68AutoBug wrote:I have never seen any of the allies using tracked trucks etc..
all wheeled vehicles...
The French were the pioneers of the "Halftrack"
Kegresse a mechanic & overseer to the Russian Czar's Garage invented a halftrack system for the Czar's use in the winter & spring months as early as 1910
Kegresse & Citroen then combined ideas on futher developing the halftrack system in the 1920's
By 1923 the Citoen-Kegresse halftracks had been successfully trialed & demonstrated in extreme endurance tests in Africa & asia.
Many Half track designs were used by the US Between 1925 and 1930 based on the Citroen-Kegresse half track. In 1930 a license to build them was purchased. The James Cunningham auto company and the US Army Rock Island auto engineering division combined to design half tracks. They had designed several "adapters" by 1935 that could be installed in place of the rear wheels on a conventional auto chassis. In 1939 the Army took a M3 Scout Car and added one of these "adapters" to it. It proved to be successful. In 1941 the Army standardized on the M2 Half Track Car and M3 Half Track Personnel Carrier.

The Citroen-kegresse "unarmoured" haltracks were in service by numerous European countries,These included the:
Citroen-Kegresse Hinstin
Unic Kegresse P 107
Tracteur Somua MCL
Somua MCG (heavy)
When the Germans occupied these countries they naturally commandeered the vehicle stocks & included them in their own formations, figures vary but it is known that 3000 unarmourd haftrack trucks fell into German hands from France alone, by 1943 the Germans converted the remaining vehicles with "Armoured" bodies to augment their PanzerGrenadier Regiments since Domestic German production could never meet demands,These vehicle were converted & look very similar to contemporary German Halftracks, it's possible that the untrained eye would never even see the Difference.

Yes the Germans did build a bewildering array of vehicles, but it's also true that they captured a bewildering array of vehicles & were forced to adapt & utilize them.

The Allies on the other hand,having found themselves under prepared at wars start were forced to catch up & surpass the Germans in vehicle production if victory was to be assurd,England & Russia were just as hap hazard in Vehicle design as the Germans, by the time the US could supply enough vehicles for all their allies they had decided to stick with a simple rugged design & mass produce it.

Citroen-Kegresse in Aus

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68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#274400
Kubelwagen production started again in june 1945 when 138 kubelwagens were assembled, again in july 1945 another 235 were built, and only 136 in august...
and only 11 being made in september as the Ambi Bud factory that made the bodies for the kubelwagens was now in East Berlin under control of the Russians....
a further two kubels were made in October & December 1945 and the final one was made in February 1946..
703 kdf-wagens [beetles on kubel chassis] and 58 standard Beetles were also made in 1945....

the kdf-wagens had reduction hubs at the rear and was 3 inches higher than a standard beetle....

Lee

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- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#274404
68AutoBug wrote:I have never seen any of the allies using tracked trucks etc..
all wheeled vehicles...
I've never seen any tracked vehicles as used by the Britsh army - in Movies - as I wasn't at the war it self.. 🙂🙂

I did see in the movie "a bridge too far" Germans in US Jeeps and US army personel driving captured German vehicles...

Lee

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- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

ancientbugger Custom Title Time!

1,986 posts · joined Mar 2004 ·

#274692
When my pc is back together I'll post some shots from a WW2 re-enactment bunch that showed up at VW action in the UK. I remember passing all these germans armed to the teeth driving up the M1 in their kubelwagens! They certainly caused a few shocked glances.
Bazza