drawings of tinware under the cylinders type 1

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 2 Feb 2003, 3:52 pm

#23950

I have never had the tinware in front of the engine and under the pushrod tubes on My car-[as its still being restored] and I just went to find them and I have some bits but they dont look correct. I'm NOT sure whether the tinware is for a doghouse cooler setup or the original 1500 sp engine. Is the tinware the same for both..? as I have all the top tinware for the doghouse cooler... I am also running type 3 Cool Tin under the cylinders.. this may be the problem!!!
I have searched ALL MY workshop book and none seem to show the front tinware. remember- the front of the VW air cooled engine is the gearbox-transaxle side. :thumb:thumb:o

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 2 Feb 2003, 6:36 pm

#23970

Hey Lee have you ever checked your putor for a VIRUS every time i open one of your posts... my putpr crashes to say its BAD.... can you run a scan through yr machine... in case yr passing JUNK of to all of us.

I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

amazer kombi pilot

3,187 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 2 Feb 2003, 7:10 pm

#23984

its not a virus dave. You just need a pentium 5 processor to cope with the colours, size, emoticons etc. Plus a very fit pigeon to fly the information out from Scone.

Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 3 Feb 2003, 7:19 am

#24122

it must be the pigeon dropings getting crossed over in the conversion from dropping data to the processor. Or is it the data comming down the string line.

I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

Jeza Officially Full-On Dubber

353 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 3 Feb 2003, 12:48 pm

#24165

There is an exploded tin diagram on the Shoptalkforum here
http://shoptalkforums.com/bbs/NonCGI/Forum34/HTML/000674.html

Hope this helps
Cheers
Jeremy

......random gibberish for today.......

Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l

12,785 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 3 Feb 2003, 1:03 pm

#24167

ok - now i am worried!

What is piece 7 and 8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Futue te ipsum!!!

amazer kombi pilot

3,187 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 3 Feb 2003, 1:07 pm

#24169

that looks like 36 horse heater boxes. I wouldnt worry. must be US only stuff.

Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf

aussiebug Officially Full-On Dubber

246 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 3 Feb 2003, 3:50 pm

#24198

Blue - 7 and 8 are the stale air heater boxes used on 62 and earlier beetles.

Lee (68Auto), you still need the pieces 9, 6 and 10 if you are using the "cool tins" as these simply replace the flat under-cylinder deflector plates (part No5 in the pic) - they don't form any kind of underside plenum, which you still need so that so the underside of the engine is not subject to the turbulent airflow under there. Without the underside plenum the normal exit of cooling air is disturbed and the engine is likely to run hotter.

The underside tinware is the same for both doghouse and in-shroud cooling systems.

You probably won't need the small vertical plate No 11 and it's twin on the other side (not shown in that pic) - I think the cool tins replace these pieces.

For those not familiar with "cool tins" - they are a modification used on Type3 engines, to more closely control the flow of cooling air around the cylinders. They cup the undersides and force the air more closely through the underside fins, before exiting through the rectangular holes in the bottom of the "tins". They also have "ears" which cup the exhaust valve area of the heads, which improves the cooling flow around the exhaust ports.

The cool tins actually reduce the airflow around the cylinders (but use it better) and this reduction causes an increase in air pressure ABOVE the cylinders/heads, and the result of this is that you get more airflow through the heads, and since this is the hottest part of the engine, it provides better cooling.

When fitting cool tins, you MUST still use the smaller flat plate deflectors in the middle of the head-undersides - they force the cooling air fore/aft trhough the underside head finning and without them the undersides of the heads will run hotter than they should.

Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com

OvalGlen Custom Title Time!

1,361 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 3 Feb 2003, 8:39 pm

#24276

Rob, when you said
-----MUST still use the smaller flat plate deflectors in the middle of the head-undersides -
-
were you refering to the peice which is approx 30 mm by 30 mm with the diagonal slot ?

Regards,Glenn>

OvalGlen Custom Title Time!

1,361 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 3 Feb 2003, 8:43 pm

#24278

Rob I am glad you mentioned the under cylinder "plenum" plates. "Glenn turns Pink" I didnt
fully re-instate these pieces after fitting the merged extractors on mine.
Now I have a new project. Ta.

[Edited on 3-2-2003 by OvalGlen]

Regards,Glenn>

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 3 Feb 2003, 11:28 pm

#24316

I have found the drivers side plates - looks like two pieces and one piece on the other side I think..... I have a long narrow plate approx 5-6" long...not sure where it goes until I look at the website tomorrow... thanks again Rob.:o:thumb:thumb:o:bounce

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 3 Feb 2003, 11:37 pm

#24319

vw54 wrote:Hey Lee have you ever checked your putor for a VIRUS every time i open one of your posts... my putpr crashes to say its BAD.... can you run a scan through yr machine... in case yr passing JUNK of to all of us.

Dave, I use the Business version of Norton's 2002 anti virus software which scans EVERYTHING BOTH Ways ... and although I do get many viruses sent to My email address, the Norton's stops them all. It also updates the Viruses every Friday automatically. Many people I am corresponding with at the moment have been having problems, but I haven't seen a Virus for a month... and My Computer is NOT a year old yet...
Probably interference from traffic lights Dave.. :o😀:thumb:bounce

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 4 Feb 2003, 12:10 am

#24320

Jeza wrote:There is an exploded tin diagram on the Shoptalkforum here
http://shoptalkforums.com/bbs/NonCGI/Forum34/HTML/000674.html

Hope this helps
Cheers
Jeremy

7 & 8 are the early model flaps before the fresh air heaters.. that is an excellent exploded view picture ... incidently I have glued foam rubber around the doghouse cooler tineware to stop air escaping, and I found another fellow had done the same when I looked at His engine. thanks again..:o:thumb:o:bounce:bounce

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

aussiebug Officially Full-On Dubber

246 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 4 Feb 2003, 12:59 pm

#24381

OvalGlen wrote:Rob, when you said
-----MUST still use the smaller flat plate deflectors in the middle of the head-undersides -
-
were you refering to the peice which is approx 30 mm by 30 mm with the diagonal slot ?

Yes Glen - those are the pieces I was referring to. The one on the right has the thermostat push rod going through it (hence the diagonal slot).

These pieces don't look much, but without them the air flowing through the centre of the heads just spills straight down and the underside head finning gets almost no cooling (can you say "cracked heads"?).

Lee - putting a foam seal around the oil cooler to seal it up to the doghouse is a very good idea - I've gone that on mine too.

And I hope you have the small L shaped bracket around the base - sometimes called the "hoover bit" after Bob Hoover in the USA. This piece is absolutely essential in sealing the base of the oil cooler - without it a larger amount of cooling air is forced out of the tinware under pressure, before it gets to travel through the cooler itself.

Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com

OvalGlen Custom Title Time!

1,361 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 Feb 2003, 6:55 pm

#24618

Have to agree with Rob on this tinware stuff.
Be very Fastidious - make sure all the pieces are in place including the flaps in the fan housing.
As you said - seal up spaces where the air should not escape.
I also block up any holes left in the housing where "wire holders" / screws etc are left out - unused.
Then make sure the seal around the engine bay is Good. No gaps left for hot air to suck up into the engine.

Regards,Glenn>

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 17 Feb 2003, 5:39 am

#26748

Yes glen, I also do that with any holes. but there are Many people who don't even use the rubber seals on the top of the spark plugs and the large hole in the rear plate for the hot air to go to the carby is left open on many cars.... You should think that if the engine was water cooled where it would leak... and fix it....

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 17 Feb 2003, 5:45 am

#26749

Yes Rob,
I have the Hoover bit, still in as new condition painted red ...
Now are You saying that I still have to use the old original "cool tin" !!!!too....or is that if You don't have type 3 cool tin...
Yes I have all the funny shaped bits hanging in the shed.... Its like a jigsaw puzzle after 5 years...

OvalGlen wrote:Rob, when you said
-----MUST still use the smaller flat plate deflectors in the middle of the head-undersides -
-
were you refering to the peice which is approx 30 mm by 30 mm with the diagonal slot ?

Yes Glen - those are the pieces I was referring to. The one on the right has the thermostat push rod going through it (hence the diagonal slot).

These pieces don't look much, but without them the air flowing through the centre of the heads just spills straight down and the underside head finning gets almost no cooling (can you say "cracked heads"?).

Lee - putting a foam seal around the oil cooler to seal it up to the doghouse is a very good idea - I've done that on mine too.

And I hope you have the small L shaped bracket around the base - sometimes called the "hoover bit" after Bob Hoover in the USA. This piece is absolutely essential in sealing the base of the oil cooler - without it a larger amount of cooling air is forced out of the tinware under pressure, before it gets to travel through the cooler itself. [/quote]

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

aussiebug Officially Full-On Dubber

246 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 17 Feb 2003, 12:18 pm

#26799

Lee said:
>Yes Rob,
I have the Hoover bit, still in as new condition painted red ...
Now are You saying that I still have to use the old original "cool tin" !!!!too....or is that if You don't have type 3 cool tin...
Yes I have all the funny shaped bits hanging in the shed.... Its like a jigsaw puzzle after 5 years...

If you are using the type3 cool tins, you do NOT use the flat under-cylinder deflector plate - the cool tins replace these.

But you must still use the smaller flat plate delfectors under the head centre-section - the one with the slot in it on the right piece for the thermostat rod.

The cool tins are interesting in the way they work - they cup the underside of the cylinders more closely than the original flat plate deflectors so the airflow it through all the finning - it has nowhere to "spill" away from the fins, and have relatively small rectangular air outlets under the cylinders. This results in a REDUCTION of air flowing around the cylinders, but using that air better. The reduced airflow then increases the air pressure in the plenum above the head/cylinders and this increases the flow through the HEADS.

At the same time, the "ears" on the cool tins control the flow of cooling air much better around the hot exhaust ports, so you get...

1. Better use of cylinder cooling air.
2. A greater flow of air through the heads, and
3. Better control of airflow around the hot exhaust ports.

So why didn't VW use them on bug engines too? Well, cost is one thing - a few cents per car saved is a lot of money when you build over a million bugs a year. And the type3 engine has a more convoluted air path and more restricted engine bay, so making better use of the available cooling air makes sense.

The stock 1600 bug engine probably doesn't get much advantage out of using cool tins (the stock bug system copes with 60hp OK), but any higher power engine would get a useful benefit, and there certainly would be no harm in using them on stock engines either.

Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com

OvalGlen Custom Title Time!

1,361 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 17 Feb 2003, 8:09 pm

#26887

" cool " tip Rob,
cheers

Regards,Glenn>