What is your opinion??
I am sick of paying 121 bucks a semester so hippies can post up anti war posters that i dont necisarily support!!
DoNkEy Wolfsburg Wizard
684 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·
End Compulsary Student Unions!, your opinion
End Compulsary Student Unions!, your opinion
17 votes · Voting is open
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Yes -> I am sick of the hippies 6 votes · 35%
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Yes -> but i like the use of the microwaves, but sick of apying fees 1 vote · 6%
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Dont care! 4 votes · 24%
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No -> I am a hippie and how else am i gonna fund my endevour to assasinate Jonny 0 votes · 0%
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No -> Student Unions are the student voice 6 votes · 35%
Log in to vote.
DoNkEy Wolfsburg Wizard
684 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·
sorry for spelling mistake..i cant edit it
and before you say anything...YES I AM BIASED!
and before you say anything...YES I AM BIASED!
VolksFolks Son of Jim - Creator of Good
2,869 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·
so you are pro war eh
[Edited on 3-11-2004 by VolksFolks]
[Edited on 3-11-2004 by VolksFolks]
They laugh because You are different, You laugh because They are all the same.
check out www.lowlight.com.au for low lights only..
check out www.lowlight.com.au for low lights only..
barls Administrator Causer of Chaos and Mayhem
9,474 posts · joined Jun 2004 ·
i say get rid of the art students out of the unions cause they make up 90% of those posters and marches
“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
the chaos project - click me
the chaos project - click me
pod i`ve got to finish this thing one day
4,980 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·
i always thought unionism isnt compulsary anymore,according to johnny.
well in the workplace that is🙂
well in the workplace that is🙂
meetings 1st sunday of the month
check wbsite for location
All Welcome
http://www.flatfour.org/
and on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/FlatFour
check wbsite for location
All Welcome
http://www.flatfour.org/
and on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/FlatFour
DoNkEy Wolfsburg Wizard
684 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·
nah Jonny tried to put it through the senate to abolish compulsary student unionism..but it didnt make it through. Now that he controls the senate they are putting it through again.
YEAY!
There is nothing worse than at the beginning of a semester..right after gearing urself up with overpriced textbooks for the local artys, hippies and No Nukies to want 121 bucks from me for their personal problems with society!!
YEAY!
There is nothing worse than at the beginning of a semester..right after gearing urself up with overpriced textbooks for the local artys, hippies and No Nukies to want 121 bucks from me for their personal problems with society!!
lil dub Type3 Stylist
648 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
donkey, i've met you briefly before at action day, and you seem like a nice young lad.
BUT i really have to strongly disagree with you on this one.
I worked for the student union at UQ, and while i can understand to some extent when people feel disgruntled about having to pay fees when students are tight on money, and feeling like "hippies" are abusing the funds by printing "anti-war" poster........ these kind of statements are pretty untrue. For starters more than half of the fee paid at UQ went not to the Union, but to UQ SPORT, which is a fantastic organisation, but clearly not wasting their money on posters you dont agree with.
Politics aside, students need their unions to represent them on important issues regarding fees, facilities, services, and most importantly your education.
while the political side of it is what you might be opposed to, i think you'd agree with me in how important it is for students to have representation on the various university boards and to give all you thousands of fee-paying "clients" a say in where your fees actully go.
unions do more than provide free microwaves and print up dicky posters. im a student at QUT, but when i worked for the union at UQ i know they provided countless services, including the Refec (where cheap food is a lifeasaver for poor kiddies); excellent publications like the student diary and semper; cheap printing services for students; areas to relax and destress in; o-week festivities; the big gig; legal services, counselling services, job networks, house hunting supoort ; support services for men, women, foreign students, gay/lesbian students;............................the list is endless.
as i said, fees are a sizeable chunk out of a poor students budget, but i wholeheartedly believe that its a small price to pay to insure you education is worthwhile. and as i pointed out, a large portion of it goes to uq sport which is totally seperate.
the politics that goes on in student unions can sometimes be frustrating and alienating, but remember, this is where we go to learn, to learn how to be better people and how to intereact with the diversity of people and beliefs that exist in our country. unions are a strong part of aussie culture, you might not agree with them, but at least let yourself be exposed to the range of ideas that y ou'll come across during your uni years.........you never know......you might end up learning something instead of just complaining about stuff that "doesn't fit" into your view of how things should be.
BUT i really have to strongly disagree with you on this one.
I worked for the student union at UQ, and while i can understand to some extent when people feel disgruntled about having to pay fees when students are tight on money, and feeling like "hippies" are abusing the funds by printing "anti-war" poster........ these kind of statements are pretty untrue. For starters more than half of the fee paid at UQ went not to the Union, but to UQ SPORT, which is a fantastic organisation, but clearly not wasting their money on posters you dont agree with.
Politics aside, students need their unions to represent them on important issues regarding fees, facilities, services, and most importantly your education.
while the political side of it is what you might be opposed to, i think you'd agree with me in how important it is for students to have representation on the various university boards and to give all you thousands of fee-paying "clients" a say in where your fees actully go.
unions do more than provide free microwaves and print up dicky posters. im a student at QUT, but when i worked for the union at UQ i know they provided countless services, including the Refec (where cheap food is a lifeasaver for poor kiddies); excellent publications like the student diary and semper; cheap printing services for students; areas to relax and destress in; o-week festivities; the big gig; legal services, counselling services, job networks, house hunting supoort ; support services for men, women, foreign students, gay/lesbian students;............................the list is endless.
as i said, fees are a sizeable chunk out of a poor students budget, but i wholeheartedly believe that its a small price to pay to insure you education is worthwhile. and as i pointed out, a large portion of it goes to uq sport which is totally seperate.
the politics that goes on in student unions can sometimes be frustrating and alienating, but remember, this is where we go to learn, to learn how to be better people and how to intereact with the diversity of people and beliefs that exist in our country. unions are a strong part of aussie culture, you might not agree with them, but at least let yourself be exposed to the range of ideas that y ou'll come across during your uni years.........you never know......you might end up learning something instead of just complaining about stuff that "doesn't fit" into your view of how things should be.
.
lil dub Type3 Stylist
648 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
i think you'll find that most unions have a SECOND HAND BOOKSTORE, which is not run for profit but IS run by the union, in order to help you with those overpriced text books.......DoNkEy wrote:There is nothing worse than at the beginning of a semester..right after gearing urself up with overpriced textbooks for the local artys, hippies and No Nukies to want 121 bucks from me for their personal problems with society!!
most of the most vocal people at uni with their "personal problems" aren;t actually using student fees to voice these issues that they feel strongly about......
and i think you'll find that most pollies in government today (including your beloved little Johnnie, and premier beattie and countless others) got a valuable education at university (in degrees that they never had to PAY for becuase hecs didnt even exist....)
much of their POLITICAL education was probably founded on their valuable years in STUDENT POLITICS as part of a STUDENT UNION.
thank god howard hasnt abolished student unionism, and i hope that he wont in the next few years to come, - last time i checked there was strong and healthy support for student unions, with many young people getting involved, having a voice, and feeling passionate about the country we live in....
call me a hippy......but donkey we all drive VWs here.....and there were a sizeable chunk of us at byron the hippy capital of australia.,...............
.
DoNkEy Wolfsburg Wizard
684 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·
wow...spammed!!
give me a sec to read
give me a sec to read
DoNkEy Wolfsburg Wizard
684 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·
K first
Well written response!
My main point that i am putting forward is that the services offered by the student guild.. I never use.
They run clubs and stuff..give support and overall make a community for students. YES
Is it right for students to pay for these things if they don't use them?
It is like having to pay for car registration without owning a car!
Yes services for students like councelling ect. are important, but are they meant to be payed for by the students?
In terms of other services like the pub, second hand book store ect ( i go to QUT too). I am sure the pub makes profit..it is not that cheap.
In terms of me buying textbooks..i only buy them if they are really really required and i have used the services of the second hand book store, and it isnt that much cheaper.
Also i don't love Jonny, but i do approve of some of the reforms he made and generally like the way the country is going forward.
in terms of free education, can you really see that being viable in todays society??
Now let this not turn into a huge political debate.
I am sorry if i have caused offense and i have prolly gone overboard with the previous post. It does although show the discust i have for the way the student guild does things.
I hope i have put forward my opinion in a less nasty way.
Blessings
[Edited on 3-11-2004 by DoNkEy]
Well written response!
My main point that i am putting forward is that the services offered by the student guild.. I never use.
They run clubs and stuff..give support and overall make a community for students. YES
Is it right for students to pay for these things if they don't use them?
It is like having to pay for car registration without owning a car!
Yes services for students like councelling ect. are important, but are they meant to be payed for by the students?
In terms of other services like the pub, second hand book store ect ( i go to QUT too). I am sure the pub makes profit..it is not that cheap.
In terms of me buying textbooks..i only buy them if they are really really required and i have used the services of the second hand book store, and it isnt that much cheaper.
Also i don't love Jonny, but i do approve of some of the reforms he made and generally like the way the country is going forward.
in terms of free education, can you really see that being viable in todays society??
Now let this not turn into a huge political debate.
I am sorry if i have caused offense and i have prolly gone overboard with the previous post. It does although show the discust i have for the way the student guild does things.
I hope i have put forward my opinion in a less nasty way.
Blessings
[Edited on 3-11-2004 by DoNkEy]
DoNkEy Wolfsburg Wizard
684 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·
K first
Well written response!
My main point that i am putting forward is that the services offered by the student guild.. I never use.
They run clubs and stuff..give support and overall make a community for students. YES
Is it right for students to pay for these things if they don't use them?
It is like having to pay for car registration without owning a car!
Yes services for students like councelling ect. are important, but are they meant to be payed for by the students?
In terms of other services like the pub, second hand book store ect ( i go to QUT too). I am sure the pub makes profit..it is not that cheap.
In terms of me buying textbooks..i only buy them if they are really really required and i have used the services of the second hand book store, and it isnt that much cheaper.
Also i don't love Jonny, but i do approve of some of the reforms he made and generally like the way the country is going forward.
in terms of free education, can you really see that being viable in todays society??
Now let this not turn into a huge political debate.
I am sorry if i have caused offense and i have prolly gone overboard with the previous post. It does although show the discust i have for the way the student guild does things.
I hope i have put forward my opinion in a less nasty way.
Blessings
[Edited on 3-11-2004 by DoNkEy]
Well written response!
My main point that i am putting forward is that the services offered by the student guild.. I never use.
They run clubs and stuff..give support and overall make a community for students. YES
Is it right for students to pay for these things if they don't use them?
It is like having to pay for car registration without owning a car!
Yes services for students like councelling ect. are important, but are they meant to be payed for by the students?
In terms of other services like the pub, second hand book store ect ( i go to QUT too). I am sure the pub makes profit..it is not that cheap.
In terms of me buying textbooks..i only buy them if they are really really required and i have used the services of the second hand book store, and it isnt that much cheaper.
Also i don't love Jonny, but i do approve of some of the reforms he made and generally like the way the country is going forward.
in terms of free education, can you really see that being viable in todays society??
Now let this not turn into a huge political debate.
I am sorry if i have caused offense and i have prolly gone overboard with the previous post. It does although show the discust i have for the way the student guild does things.
I hope i have put forward my opinion in a less nasty way.
Blessings
[Edited on 3-11-2004 by DoNkEy]
DoNkEy Wolfsburg Wizard
684 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·
yey i posted twice!!
Wait now it is 3 times 🙂
Wait now it is 3 times 🙂
Starbug rustbag
2,408 posts · joined Feb 2003 ·
im in a spot when it comes to student unions... i dont really use many of the facilities they provide... so i cant comment there
but i did associate with some people who were quite "big" on the qut student union many many years ago, and they basically used all the money to fun their friends art projects.
im sorry, but im not going to give you my $ so you can give it to your friends crappy art projects.
i will on the other hand, give you my $ to give the students a voice in the community and support within the university.
my 2c.
but i did associate with some people who were quite "big" on the qut student union many many years ago, and they basically used all the money to fun their friends art projects.
im sorry, but im not going to give you my $ so you can give it to your friends crappy art projects.
i will on the other hand, give you my $ to give the students a voice in the community and support within the university.
my 2c.
in the beginning, the universe was created.
this made alot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.
this made alot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.
penguin ackkkkkk thhhhhpt!
3,383 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
ummm
this is from history so feel free to just ignore and go to the next post.
When I was at QIT and QUT, I was in the union payroll.... sort of, as a part time helper and was happy to take the money, but agree that a lot of it went to 'mates' of the people on the board.
But
When I went down to Canberra to CCAE (College of Advanced Ed, they used to exist back then okay) and it became UCAN soon afterwards my thoughts changed on Student Unions. UCAN has a Student Union (of which I am a life member) and a Student Association.
As Thorun has said the Union does the things like refec, Gym, concerts, second hand book store, clubs (like cycling, skydiving, chess and some weird accounting/business thing that was really geeky), yearly planners and a newspaper. they got prob $100 a semester from me.
Then for us there was the Student Association who did things like lawyers, protests and spend money on NUS, they got prob about the same in $ as well.
I think it was like that because it was a CAE first, not a Uni or Instuitute.
When the voluntary union thing was first mooted there didn't seem to be any distinction between either the Union or the Association, and I think a few other institution were looking at seperating the services from their Student union bodies as well.
So, all I can advise is when the time comes for you to vote (with your head if not on paper) about voluntary uinions, check what the services are that you may be culling. You may be very surprised what they do for you, and if it goes voluntary, expect to be charged a lot more to cover for lots of costs associated with members/non-members administration etc. If I had the choice I probably would have voted to kid the Union but get rid of the association, but pressured the Union to accept the alwyers gig as they did help out a lot of students with problems (me included).
this is from history so feel free to just ignore and go to the next post.
When I was at QIT and QUT, I was in the union payroll.... sort of, as a part time helper and was happy to take the money, but agree that a lot of it went to 'mates' of the people on the board.
But
When I went down to Canberra to CCAE (College of Advanced Ed, they used to exist back then okay) and it became UCAN soon afterwards my thoughts changed on Student Unions. UCAN has a Student Union (of which I am a life member) and a Student Association.
As Thorun has said the Union does the things like refec, Gym, concerts, second hand book store, clubs (like cycling, skydiving, chess and some weird accounting/business thing that was really geeky), yearly planners and a newspaper. they got prob $100 a semester from me.
Then for us there was the Student Association who did things like lawyers, protests and spend money on NUS, they got prob about the same in $ as well.
I think it was like that because it was a CAE first, not a Uni or Instuitute.
When the voluntary union thing was first mooted there didn't seem to be any distinction between either the Union or the Association, and I think a few other institution were looking at seperating the services from their Student union bodies as well.
So, all I can advise is when the time comes for you to vote (with your head if not on paper) about voluntary uinions, check what the services are that you may be culling. You may be very surprised what they do for you, and if it goes voluntary, expect to be charged a lot more to cover for lots of costs associated with members/non-members administration etc. If I had the choice I probably would have voted to kid the Union but get rid of the association, but pressured the Union to accept the alwyers gig as they did help out a lot of students with problems (me included).
'Ah, whatever................'
PurpleT3 Fahrvergnugen
880 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·
I finished Uni at Monash in 1999 and this debate was going then, I cann't believe it's still going. The union fee then was about $350 a year, so I'd hate to imagine how much they charge now.
I don't remember the details, but I do remember that at the time I came to the conclusion that it was money well spent. The services are there, and it's your choice whether to use them or not. Now I'm not at all political and I didn't use half of the services provided either, but if we were to introduce a user pays system, chances are alot of the services would disappear. I had a ball at uni, which is probably why it took me 7 years to finish, and a large part was due to all the activities, bands and services provided by the union. If all the services were run as a business to make a profit, I think going to uni would become very boring and even more expensive.
I don't remember the details, but I do remember that at the time I came to the conclusion that it was money well spent. The services are there, and it's your choice whether to use them or not. Now I'm not at all political and I didn't use half of the services provided either, but if we were to introduce a user pays system, chances are alot of the services would disappear. I had a ball at uni, which is probably why it took me 7 years to finish, and a large part was due to all the activities, bands and services provided by the union. If all the services were run as a business to make a profit, I think going to uni would become very boring and even more expensive.
Ain't nothin' like the wind in your hair.
lil dub Type3 Stylist
648 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
:blush ok ok......so i had a bit of a rant.....you should see me watching the news on telly at night....its ugly and paul actually banned me from any news/current affairs programs for a week or so after howard got relected.........but i did a bit of swearing last night at Tony Abbot and his (un)enlightened views on abortion........ah howard and abbot would love us to live back in the "golden years" when women had couldnt go to the pub and had to get back yard coathanger jobs if they were in any "touble"....
ANYWAY.
ok so yeah i agree with much of what has been said. and i have to admit that while being at QUT i havent been involved in the union at all (THANKFULLY) but i have used their bookstores, the pub, the refec, the student diary, o-week stuff and their job-guide on line thingy.
when i worked for UQ i did see a lot of "jobs for mates" going on.....but hey....isnt that where the future politicians are learning how to be real pollies....heheh.
and yeah this debate is endless, and i hope it remains that way, endless i mean. i know that by making it compulsory it means that many students have to tighten their belts while still struggling with other uni costs like books and parking permits and bus tickets and rent and food and all..... BUT if the unions lose this kind of support i really think that it will be STUDENTS who LOSE THE MOST.
like penguin said, there are services provided by the union that you may or may not use. but as students, we all need the voice they provide us, or as penguin said, we'll end up paying more, for less, and getting the raw end of an already shaking looking education.
as for free education being viable in our country today.........i dont know, i guess with the howard government having so much power for the next 3 years we might see how our country (which i love so much, am so proud of, and who's value's of "fair go for everyone" are so dear to my heart) will look like without universal health care, and the right to an education. call me an lefto, poofo, commo, pinko scumbag (sorry bad john safran joke) but i really do sincerely believe that everyone of us as australian's living in the kind of society that we enjoy has a RIGHT to free education and free healthcare, regardless of who you are or how much you've got.......i know that i would rather my taxes go on that than anything else.......
sigh.
ok.
i'll stop now. *lil dub gets off her soap box*
promise i'll go back to playing with homebrand in the mud .....eating my own snot and laughing at fart jokes
heather......what was that about spam babies.....:repuke:repuke
ANYWAY.
ok so yeah i agree with much of what has been said. and i have to admit that while being at QUT i havent been involved in the union at all (THANKFULLY) but i have used their bookstores, the pub, the refec, the student diary, o-week stuff and their job-guide on line thingy.
when i worked for UQ i did see a lot of "jobs for mates" going on.....but hey....isnt that where the future politicians are learning how to be real pollies....heheh.
and yeah this debate is endless, and i hope it remains that way, endless i mean. i know that by making it compulsory it means that many students have to tighten their belts while still struggling with other uni costs like books and parking permits and bus tickets and rent and food and all..... BUT if the unions lose this kind of support i really think that it will be STUDENTS who LOSE THE MOST.
like penguin said, there are services provided by the union that you may or may not use. but as students, we all need the voice they provide us, or as penguin said, we'll end up paying more, for less, and getting the raw end of an already shaking looking education.
as for free education being viable in our country today.........i dont know, i guess with the howard government having so much power for the next 3 years we might see how our country (which i love so much, am so proud of, and who's value's of "fair go for everyone" are so dear to my heart) will look like without universal health care, and the right to an education. call me an lefto, poofo, commo, pinko scumbag (sorry bad john safran joke) but i really do sincerely believe that everyone of us as australian's living in the kind of society that we enjoy has a RIGHT to free education and free healthcare, regardless of who you are or how much you've got.......i know that i would rather my taxes go on that than anything else.......
sigh.
ok.
i'll stop now. *lil dub gets off her soap box*
promise i'll go back to playing with homebrand in the mud .....eating my own snot and laughing at fart jokes
heather......what was that about spam babies.....:repuke:repuke
.
lil dub Type3 Stylist
648 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
ps. i didnt mean to rant at you specifically donkey......hope i didnt yell too much...i just get a bit carried away sometimes:blah
pps. i think it might be time to change my signature........voting for a more compassionate australia didnt seem to work ............. :puke
pps. i think it might be time to change my signature........voting for a more compassionate australia didnt seem to work ............. :puke
.
Che Castro ankle straps
1,945 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
I went to USYD for 3 years, and had to fork out $550/yr for the USYD union. I would like to think that it would be better to be non-compulsory, and I would join for the same price. However I have no idea how much it would cost to join if it was voluntary. A lot of things like food (really crap food) was subsidised by the union, and a lot of stuff that I used was because of the union.
However, I do despise blatant wasting of my $$ within the union. I think I'd say i'd prefer to have compulsory to be cautious, because I dont think i know what i have till its gone. The unions are there to protect us and lobby against things like fee deregulation
On the whole issue of what the libs are doing to universities - I am against raising fees and getting rid of unions (making them voluntary will do this). What they are doing is trying to privatise universities and make them less dependent on the government.
My problem with that is that a University is first and foremost an academic institution, not a corporation. Their goal should be to educate not to make profit. I dont particularly like the way it is going now. In the early 90's they cut a fair bit of funding from unis and its been going downhill since.
P.S. the union subsidised food is still terrible and pretty overpriced. much more value to just go to newtown for lunch 🙂
However, I do despise blatant wasting of my $$ within the union. I think I'd say i'd prefer to have compulsory to be cautious, because I dont think i know what i have till its gone. The unions are there to protect us and lobby against things like fee deregulation
On the whole issue of what the libs are doing to universities - I am against raising fees and getting rid of unions (making them voluntary will do this). What they are doing is trying to privatise universities and make them less dependent on the government.
My problem with that is that a University is first and foremost an academic institution, not a corporation. Their goal should be to educate not to make profit. I dont particularly like the way it is going now. In the early 90's they cut a fair bit of funding from unis and its been going downhill since.
P.S. the union subsidised food is still terrible and pretty overpriced. much more value to just go to newtown for lunch 🙂
Jon
Che Castro ankle straps
1,945 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
oh, its not FREE education! 🙂
i owe the govt. $17000 which I have to pay every time i get my tax return when i make over $24000 p.a. or so.
they are raising that amount. there are six figure degrees now at some institutions in Australia.
i owe the govt. $17000 which I have to pay every time i get my tax return when i make over $24000 p.a. or so.
they are raising that amount. there are six figure degrees now at some institutions in Australia.
Jon
BiX Veteran Volks Folk
2,499 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
Ok well my 2c worth. I went through Griffith (if you want hippies go to Griffith) for over 4 years. During my time there yes I did use some of the services of the student union , and yes in some ways maybe it should be compulsory (everybody pays taxes that are spent on schools, but might not have ids going there?) but also while I was there the student union blew over $100 k on the commonwealth heads of stats protest (or one of those sort of rallies). Now I don’t see why they should spend my money giving money to a cause that I do not support. I also know of a lot of mates projects that where funded. There was also a lot of decisions made by the student union that the majority of the uni disagreed with so instead of representing the student body, the represented themselves. So in basic form, the student union and fees are fine, but they must have very strict rules and guidelines on how and who spend them, and also make all decisions and spending EASILY available to the student body for review.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
Go hard or go home!!!!
BiX Veteran Volks Folk
2,499 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
$17k :thumb i will trade you, altjough not as bad as medicine or similar, 8 subjects a year at mid level for 4 years 🙁
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
Go hard or go home!!!!
DoNkEy Wolfsburg Wizard
684 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·
lol..u just had me on the back foot for a second. It looks like we both have almost completly different views on a few things.lil dub wrote:ps. i didnt mean to rant at you specifically donkey......hope i didnt yell too much...i just get a bit carried away sometimes:blah
pps. i think it might be time to change my signature........voting for a more compassionate australia didnt seem to work ............. :puke
I couldnt believe it last year when i found out the leaders of the student guild get paid quite a bit of money!!! i won't qote figures cause i am prolly wrong 🙂
I think 121 bucks a semester is wrong, 50 be more suitable i believe for the services they provide. It people want to play sport or be in a club...they should pay for that!!