1641 kit: what\'s involved?

ruckus Veteran Volks Folk

2,118 posts · joined Jun 2004 · 26 Nov 2004, 2:04 pm

#270558

just wondering how much parts and labour would cost to fit a big bore kit to the 1600?
As the name implies does it just involve bigger pistons and the barrels bored out or does the case have to be split?

How much around-about would it cost time wise?

[Edited on 26-11-2004 by ruckus]

PurpleT3 Fahrvergnugen

880 posts · joined Apr 2003 · 26 Nov 2004, 2:31 pm

#270575

1641cc just involves installing 87mm pistons and barrels. You buy a matched set of pistons and barrels, your old ones are tossed out not bored. The case does not need to be split as there is no change in stroke. I believe there are two types of P&B sets, one of which requires the heads and case to be machined and one which doesn't. Each has advantages.

As far as pricing goes it very much depends on whether you can do the work yourself or need to pay some one else. To get an idea of parts costs check out a few of the online VW parts shops like CIP, Aircooled.net or CB performance, also call some of the forum sponsors. I expect that the price difference between a 1641cc and an 1835cc would be fairly small, it might be worth it to just go for an 1835.

Keep in mind that to take full advantage of the increased capacity you will need to rejet the carbs etc.

Ain't nothin' like the wind in your hair.

ruckus Veteran Volks Folk

2,118 posts · joined Jun 2004 · 26 Nov 2004, 3:19 pm

#270602

How much other than Barrels and Pistons, machining the case and doing the carbs would a 1835 demand? The prices look pretty much the same. Would 36 Dellortos sit comfortably (ie: big enough?) on a 1835?

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 26 Nov 2004, 3:35 pm

#270607

If you are going to do the work for an 1835cc, then you may as well just go 1914/15/16cc, same cost..... better performance!

1776,1835,and 1915cc you need to split te case (complete pulldown)
And if you are splitting the case for the machining then change the cam,pump tec !!!!..................................when will the work end ?

Just buy a replacement 1640 kit for your engine..........and if you are mechanical you will have it changed in a day.

ruckus Veteran Volks Folk

2,118 posts · joined Jun 2004 · 26 Nov 2004, 4:07 pm

#270621

Thanks Craig, looks like 1640 it is.

Doug Sweetman Nil Bastardo Carborundum

2,128 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 26 Nov 2004, 4:13 pm

#270625

Curiosity question - anyone have any experience with the bigger slip in kits (I think they are about 88mm or 1680cc or something) ? I'm guessing that the cylinder walls at head and case ends would be getting pretty thin by that size....

1776 / 1835 / 1916 is a personal choice, and craig is right, neither will cost anymore than the other, but each has its own advantages.

There is the mother of 1916 posts on this forum somewhere..... search for it, go read it, but for god sake dont post on it and start the argument again....... 🙂

I have an 1835 - I havent experienced any problems yet, but I only have about 15,000km's on the engine so far.

If I ever build another air cooled vw engine I will save my pennies and build a BIG type IV, like about 2.5L and just have a nice lazy torquey motor, rather than one that needs to get above 3000 / 3500 rpm for power (like my current 1835 does).

1641 is a great upgrade - couple it with a 32/36 progressive webber and a set of extractors and you wont recognise your car !

VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome

5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 · 26 Nov 2004, 5:19 pm

#270649

Doug Sweetman wrote:If I ever build another air cooled vw engine I will save my pennies and build a BIG type IV, like about 2.5L and just have a nice lazy torquey motor, rather than one that needs to get above 3000 / 3500 rpm for power (like my current 1835 does).

Thjat's cam (especially), head and carb choice more than capacity. Not saying you have it wrong, but get it right and a T1 will pull from the basement.
Big T4s are expesnive - more than $500 for just an oil pump lasttime I looked... but yeah, cubes are nice! That's why my daily driver is a V8

Pay your debts, CxxT

Doug Sweetman Nil Bastardo Carborundum

2,128 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 26 Nov 2004, 6:41 pm

#270686

yeah, in my innocence and ignorance I went for a nightmare combination - a set of 40IDF's, bought off a fiat but reconditioned with no filters or manifold, and a HSC #2 cam, which I have never been able to find the actual grind of !

I never got the IDF's on, as they had the wrong throttle shafts in them for a VW, so I had hells own issues getting linkages together, and then I finally got them set up and there was a bad fuel leak, they werent getting fuel to one side, I needed the car regoed quickly and I spat it and took them off. Theyve never been on the car since.

Now I have Kadrons which are nice, but I think they are a little restrictive for my combo above 4800 ~ 5500 sort of revs. And they are old an flogged out, need a rebuild and bigger jets and venturis.......

It never ends once you start it !

Next rebuild will be a different cam and maybe one day I will find someone in PErth who is not afraid of IDF webers on a VW.

Jeza Officially Full-On Dubber

353 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 26 Nov 2004, 7:02 pm

#270691

VWCOOL wrote:Big T4s are expesnive - more than $500 for just an oil pump lasttime I looked... but yeah, cubes are nice! That's why my daily driver is a V8

OK I don't want to start an argument here, and I know this ain't exactly a big motor, but I've been comparing prices of T1 1915's vs T4 1911 (66 x 96). And for the long block there is about NZ$500 in it from my rough calculations.

Admitedly I have not built / reco'd an engine before so I am not aware of all the traps.

I'll also admit that there is a bit more expense in setting up the T4 cooling to fit it into a beetle.

And I am not biased either way (yet).

aircooled.net sells a Scahdeck oil pump for the T4 for US$50.
http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=ECO0002&cartid=1124200460463079

Which is were I got most of the prices when I compared them.

For interested parties when I finally get the spreadsheet finished I will post it on http://www.nzveedubnuts.com/
for interests sake.

Cheers
Jeremy

......random gibberish for today.......