Has everyone seen the waffle in the papers latey?
http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/More-guidance-less-torque-the-Pplate-plan/2004/11/29/1101577381681.html
I'm getting a little tired or the "If you speed you will spontaneously combust" and "P platers are teh Devil!" attitude of the govt and opinions in the media.
am I the only one to think this?
If it aint broke,
Make it go faster!!
What's really stupid is that the number of fatals and high speed non-fatals for P drivers has decreased consistently for the past 2 years!
at least the unsuspecting beetle wont be deemed as a power house of a car........ little do the know wat lies beneath
hehehe I won't be getting into any trouble...not with 36 horsies of power 😀
Most of its just media frenzy...I didn't think P plater fatalities have increased and now its harder to get a license then it has ever been before. Even if fatalities have increased the solutions they are proposing just won't work people will simply remove the p plates to get by them.
Heidi - 1960 White Beetle
'65 Kiwi Ghia
Nope
bugger it, if you're under 35 no car for you!!!
you can all walk, why back in my day :blah:blah:blah:blah:blah:blah:blah
btw, very TIC, okay?.
'Ah, whatever................'
Canni. wrote:Even if fatalities have increased the solutions they are proposing just won't work people will simply remove the p plates to get by them.
And when they get caught they will have their license suspended, thats a bright idea...
If it saves some lives, slows young people down and makes my life safer on the road, then its a good thing.
Toll may have reduced, but young people are still dying in fast and powerful cars, so eliminate some of the problem, control what you can control...You wont stop young drivers from thinking they know it all and from thinking they know how to drive, but you can limit what, when and how they do it...
Attend a funeral of a young driver killed through their own stupidity, then you will change your mind...
I don't think that you can punish all P platers for the stupidity of some. I used to drive my boyfriend's ( now husband) V8 Commodore when I was a P Plater without problem.
I don't think that banning high powered cars is the solution either. I saw a group of young boys yesterday in a tiny car ( a diahatsu ? spelling ) and he was going around the corner on 2 wheels !!!!!!!
Lowering speed limits is also not the solution.
Better driver training is, making the test harder than going through 2 intersections and reverse parking !
🤘
i agree with some of the sentiments expressed, but some are just too far fetched.
the night time curfew... get stuffed! some people work at night, you arent going to make them walk home through sydney are you? hmmm?
i agree that people who have just gotten their license shouldnt be able to drive high powered vehicles until they have more experience, but if a kid/parent is prepared to pay the insurance for an under 25 on a v8 bombadore, then of course they are going to be able to fork out for the car... its probably a much more constructive option to have every newly passed driver do an assertive/safety driving course in the first 3 months of their license, and if the driver has a high powered vehicle, then to do one every year.
if it was compulsory back when i got my license then i would have jumped at the chance to better my experience and driving skills.
and i agree that learners need ALOT more night driving time... i got heaps of night driving experience and different weather situation experience too... i think thats where alot of learners and even experienced drivers are lacking.
in the beginning, the universe was created.
this made alot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.
Starbuggy wrote:i agree with some of the sentiments expressed, but some are just too far fetched.
the night time curfew... get stuffed! some people work at night, you arent going to make them walk home through sydney are you? hmmm?
Whats wrong with Sydney? What have you heard?
I also agree with the high powered vehicles...but curfew and limiting passengers are the 'solutions' I have a few problems with...they don't do anything to improve driving skills and hinder gaining experiance in a wide range of conditions (which is what you are meant to do whilst on p plates), they also punish the majority of p platers who do drive responsibly.
Heidi - 1960 White Beetle
'65 Kiwi Ghia
i had a freind. this freind was a passenger in a toyota corrolla. 1.6 litre engine if i recall. the driver was a P Plater, another freind of mine. A responsible driver. another freind was a rear passenger of this car.
Freind #2 had to have facial reconstruction surgury
Freind #3 had a broken leg and collorbone
Freind #1 is now dead.
all because of a middle aged man driving a 4wd under the influence collided with them in Noosa a few months ago. My freind lost his life not because of irresponsible driving on behalf of a P plater but because of irresponsible driving of a supposedly experienced older driver.
now i ask you. how many types of accidents are there like this?.
sure people die in accidents and a percentage of them are P Platers however im sure an equal/larger portion are older drivers.
now banning high powered cars may be a solution however i know quite a few people who drive high powered cars and are some of the best drivers i know. i also know people who drive small engined jap cars who shouldnt have licenses it works both ways.
as Starbuggy stated some people work late at night. I work till 2.30am most nights and dont particualrly want to walk home or fork out money for a taxi everynight.
the way to stop road fatalitys is through better/ stricter policing and driver education not though stricter rules and curfews.
the other day i witnessed a young driver in a VP commodore drifting around the roundabout at the kings beach carpark, he then sped through the carpark at probobly 85 k's an hour and sped off down the road. this driver should have his license cancelled. i also witnessed on saturday a young driver whom i went to school with trying very hard to drift around a roundabout in noosa in an early Hyundai Excell. now this car has a small engine but with a bad driver behind the wheel it is only a matter of time before an accident happens. this driver should also have his license cancelled. however having a ban on powerful cars wouldnt stop this driver from having an accident.
another example is not long after i bought my baja i was driving under the speed limit along the bruce highway when a van pulled out in front/beside of me dangerously from a merge lane leaving me the only option of side swiping a passing truck in the right hand lane causing damage to my car which through the generosity of a couple of members of this forum i was able to fix and a fraction of the cost. this was an accident caused by a non p Plater who drove away without a care with me, the P Plater the victim.
in my opinion the system is a crock and it will only make things harder for P Platers who drive well and safely.
Nick
[Edited on 29-11-2004 by Anthiron]
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
all p platers should have to drive volvos..... i want one
all learner drivers should have to undertake driver training......... including wet, and oiled burnoutpads.... you learn a lot of control, and they should have to go for manual licences...... everyone should be able to coordinate a clutch brake and throtle with one foot, while changing gears, using the handbrake, and steering with their knees
there's a good mailing list for the National Motorist's Association of Aust, at
www.nmaa.com.au, and also The Australian Driver's Group
www.ozdrive.org has a members forum (free) where road safety initiatives are being discussed.
If it aint broke,
Make it go faster!!
i reckon its way to easy to get a licence. they should make it more structured - like a proper education rather than just getting someone to reverse park and stop at stop signs then giving them a licence.
Night curfews are silly and unenforceable, and power curfews would be difficult to enforce on modified cars. The problem is not with the car but with the driver i reckon. U can be an idiot in an old datto if u really wanted.
Jon
[
sure people die in accidents and a percentage of them are P Platers however im sure an equal/larger portion are older drivers.
I am actually doing a Masters degree in Gerontology and have just submitted a paper on drivers over the age of 65. Although they spend far less hours on the road, they have 9 times the accident rate than younger drivers. The reason why this is not highly known is because the crash rates between older drivers and youngers drivers are far different. Older drivers tend to be involved in low speed "fender benders" usually as a result of not giving way. They are rarely involved in accidents as a result of speed, alcohol or drugs. The younger generation however have the more "sensational" crashes, resulting in major damages !!!! Often as a result of speed, alcohol, drugs, fatigue or a combination of all of the above.
🤘
all i have to say is that statistics can be used to prove anything 95% of all people know that
“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
the chaos project - click me
and the other 8% will argue differently
73 it makes you think doesnt it :duh
“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
the chaos project - click me
I think there are a number of things, good and bad that have been put forward of late. My belief is that it is not just a P plater issue, but all road user issues. Whilst you can't control a persons driving, no matter what capacity of car they are driving, processes can be put in place to ensure that they are qualified when they finally do take to the road.
I believe driver education should start at school, and that the current testing process involve more than a hillstart and reverse parking - it needs to cover road sense and ability to read the conditions around.
P platers should not be allowed access to any car over 2lt capacity nor any forced induction vehicle unless they have attended driver education - similar to bike stay upright.
All drivers every 10 years should be subjected to a test to ensure that they still have their senses, and are up to date with any recent road rule changes. This includes people who drive at Freeway speeds so that they can understand the controls of weighting of a car when you lift off the throttle in a car. I suppose it comes down to car balance and how accelerator inputs affect the balance of a car.
Also an education campaign to all drivers about slowing down, remaining calm and patient should be put into place. I've seen some adverts, but it is not enough.
Will any of this happen? Of course not. Why? Because we have governments in place that like to manage by fear. Fear, road tolls, and speeding fines fill their budgets. They won't put any major overhaul in place because it will cost them money in the long run. And as for fixing the state of roads - well that will also cost them too.
The media are also to blame because they beat it all up too for the sake of a story. Yes - what happened over the past week is a horror, but it's nothing worse than goes on up the Pacific Hwy every holiday period. Which of course through the Christmas Holidays we'll have a whole lot of images pushed down our throats, and nothing about remediation of the broader issue.
Squiz.....
just put us all in a padded room from birth with a helmet on ,feed us with a straw and have a full time medical team on standby in case we sneeze or cough .lethal injection at say ,110yrs. a much safer way to live and so much easier for the gov.
we can't be trusted!!!!!!!!
im sick of the government changing the goal posts when ever i get close. i say we, the under 25 population write to our local members about this and let the masses speak the truth. when i was 18 it was under 20 then when i was 19 they changed it to under 21 then when i was 20 they changed it to under 25 and now im almost 25 they are planning to do it again. so i say unite my fellow down trodden let the ignorate know of our power so that we may be down trodden no more. who is with me
?
“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
the chaos project - click me
I was a hoon in Dato 120Y for a while!!! It is possible to be a hoonin any vehicle, no matter the engine capacity or wether the car has been souped up or not. The biggest problem is the attictude of trying to better everyone else on the road, not give way to others and getting offended when someone cuts you off. The reality is that if a driver pushes in front of you coming up to a set of lights or refuses to give way, it really doesn't hurt you. Worrying about if for the sake of a couple of seconds is quite pointless.
This being said, the driving that worries me the most is those who pull in front of trucks coming up to a set of lights forcing the truck driver to hit the anchors so as to avoid soem silly small car driven by an individual who has no idea of stopping distances of large vehicles. It happens regularly if you drive a Kombi around town. A little education, respect for others on the roads and driving as though every other driver on the road is basically out to hit you is the way to survive driving in Sydney.
Also the worst drivers on the road aren't the P platers but ratehr the middle aged Asian drivers, usually female driving fancy European or Japanese cars. Don't believe me, drive around Chatswood, Burwood or Eastwood and see for yourself.........a Real eye opener.
been there and ill agree with you there mate some of them are dangerous
“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
the chaos project - click me
If they were going to limit the engines that P-platers could drive, they should do it based on power or the power to weight ratio rather than the capacity. My parents car has a 2.4 litre engine which I wouldn't be able to drive under squizy's suggestion. The car this engine is in is a Mitsubishi Nimbus. It weighs 1.6 tons, and the motor is pretty gutless.
I don't see why this P-plate thing is necessary. I can think of no positive aspect to it at all. I can think of plenty of negatives though. Non P drivers seem to treat me quite harshly. Other people seem to do lots of stupid things around me, but then that could be because I drive a Beetle.
There are a lot of countries where they don't have this sort of system and people seem to be fine with it.
The test could do with being harder. I can't think of anything on my test which was particularly challenging. A basic training course on how to recover from skidding and losing control of your car would be a good idea, but make them do it straight away then give them their full license.
Insurance prices will deter a lot of people from getting powerful cars. When my dad was my age, he had a Lotus Elan. When he insured it he discovered an insurance bracket so high he didn't even know it existed and paid more for insurance per quarter than the car had cost him. He didn't keep it very long.
I can't see how a night curfew would help. It woulc create numerous problems. Firstly, P-platers would need to rely on parents or non P plater friends to get to and from places like parties. It would mean I couldn't even go and pick up a pizza. Also banning people fron driving at night won't magically increase their ability to drive at night. They'll have more experience by the time the ban is lifted, but not at night driving.
Perhaps the government should instead find a way of keeping bad drivers off the road instead of arbitrary bans against a fairly large subset of Australian drivers.
i reckon everyoine should do the driver training - defensive driving course!! im doing one on the 12th!! G'parents booked me in for christmas, and i can't wait!!
Tagedeezee Heezy
Powerfull car bans will not work, when I was on P's silly me had 5 friends in the back of my datsun ute (top speed of about 95 ks) doing circle work. Police got me before any injury was caused (thankfully) I got off with a warning. Dad kicked my ass pretty hard which made me think of what i had done more then the police had. 6 months later a close friend of mine died in a crash, he was doing 55 in a 60 zone lost control on loose gravel at road works and the driver side door hit a pole causing major head injurys. All so having a ristriction on passengers will just get ride of designated driver at parties.The police need more powers and drivers need more hands on defensive driving skills.
Getting over
Hippopotomonstrosesquippedaliophobia
I say give everyone a V8 and 8 hours at eastern creek. They will get it out of their system and natural consequences will weed out the real idiots.
Obviously the penalties for driving recklessly and causing injury or death are not harsh enough. Ban repeat or heavy drink drivers for 20 years, same for people who cause serious, permenant or death injury. You can hoon to a certain degree but keep it below dangerous.
I got done doing 65 in a 60 zone - in a 225KW Ford TE50 I had the accelerator down about 2mm. Hey I'm not whinging about it (much) I have to cop it sweet. It is a bloody sight better than doing 141 in a 60 zone sideways into another car and killing an innocent driver.
I don't think it is just P platers that are the cause of accidents.
I see a lot that come through work and drive around newcastle on a regular bassis.
if i see them with just them selves and 1 other they are usually pritty calm on the road but then i see the same people with a full car and people are hanging out windows and they are driving like idiots.
I myself lost a freind just the other day in the accident down the central coast where the 20 year old rapped his skyline around a telegraph pole killing him self and his passengers.
now knowing this person he would not have been driving like that by hime self. he just had to show off all the time when friends were in the care. He learnt his leason the hardest way possible.
Jasmine the 75 L Bug
56 oval, 2000 New Beetle
Anthiron wrote:i had a freind. this freind was a passenger in a toyota corrolla. 1.6 litre engine if i recall. the driver was a P Plater, another freind of mine. A responsible driver. another freind was a rear passenger of this car.
Freind #2 had to have facial reconstruction surgury
Freind #3 had a broken leg and collorbone
Freind #1 is now dead.
all because of a middle aged man driving a 4wd under the influence collided with them in Noosa a few months ago. My freind lost his life not because of irresponsible driving on behalf of a P plater but because of irresponsible driving of a supposedly experienced older driver.
now i ask you. how many types of accidents are there like this?.
[Edited on 29-11-2004 by Anthiron]
I had a similar experiance nick.
I had 2 passengers in my car and we came over a blind hill,and was confronted by a car on the wrong side off the road.
He swerved to miss him but he hit the back end of my car , which sent us off the road and wrapping us around a tree.
Both myself and the passenger in the front were trapped under the dash board off the commodore i owned and the passenger in the back died from internal injuries cause by the lapsash seat belt in the back.
The driver off the other vehicle didn't stop they just drove on.
It was lucky that a person watering their garden took note of the rego plate of the other car.
He was found hidding at home and was breathalised and was found to be way over the legal limit.
He was charged, but the strange thing to me was i was charged also with neg driving because there was no skid marks on the road. so they assuemed i was travelling faster than the speed limit.
which i can freely admit i was doing no more than speed limit of 80kph
It wasn't till we had been hit by the other car that i hit the brakes.
Jasmine the 75 L Bug
56 oval, 2000 New Beetle
