Flyingvw... im not disagreeing with you that ANYONE driving under the influence of anything is an idiot, but i took your first statement as anyone in general, not specifically behind the wheel. sorry if i misconstrued your post.
if i didnt, then thats another thing that isnt for the forums.
hotrodmatt, a friend of mine drove his sandman van after taking a demazin, he wrote it off after falling asleep at the wheel. he thought that because he didnt feel sleepy an hour after he took it that he was ok to drive.
drugs like these should technically also be tested for, but of course they wont be as they are prescription drugs. I get hayfever and alergies alot, but i put up with them because i dont want to compromise my driving.
others obviously dont care as much and fall asleep at the wheel.
sax! what a discussion you have started... topics like this arent so black and white 🙂
in the beginning, the universe was created.
this made alot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.
Mmmm , basically it's just the same as driving drunk. If it's your thing to have a chuff at a party or barby get someone else to drive home OR ask to stay over and get totally toasted!
Dan:P
"If i had to explain you wouldnt understand"
The Lower Class
Would you drive with a Blood alcohol level of 0.04???? Does the limit (0.05) therefore make it OK to drive with a blood alcohol reading of 0.04 when you feel pissed off your skull because you haven't eaten all day, or had 2 hrs sleep the night before, or just can't drink much? Well the law is irrelevant, and you can show me as many pictures as you like of cars wrapped around trees. What matters is whether YOU are intoxicated, and often some people at 0.03 feel very pissed, and some other people at 0.05 don't feel anything. I don't think the testing is all bad as there has to be some limit set for convenience, but perhaps the limit should be 0.00, or .08 like it used to be. Who knows?? It's still up to you to decide if you can drive safely especially when you're below the limit.
In case you're wondering, I hardly drink, and never drive intoxicated, and I've never even tried any drugs once, but most of the time I'm smart enough to not drive if I'm tired, or if I've had one beer and feel a bit reckless.
"Tell him 'We've already got one'"
Oasis, well said.
It's the same as speed limits, the lowest common denominator principle applies. Lets govern everyone to buggery because of the stupid few.
Just because a sign on the side of the road with a number is the final word and anybody going faster than that will be booked.
No ifs buts or maybes, you were ' breaking the law' and must be punished.
I mean, we all know we will instantly die if we do 140 on a empty freeway posted at 110.
" You're not a team player "
so what is the answer,
get every one together give them a drug of choice ,lets say one beer let them drive around in a controlled environment if they are ok give them another then another untill they start to get alittle dangerous then minus one or 2 beers of there limit ,there you go mate you passed at 7 beers here is your license.
No that's too hard, just go around the block at walking speed, do a reverse park and answer a few questions.
There ya go, you passed.
After all, it's in the gumbiment's best interests to have people on the road at any cost, best cash cow ever.
" You're not a team player "
Well NOW you've opened a can of worms KombiDog... The way I see it is all of these laws are a way of taking our own personal responsibility away, i.e. the responsibility we accept for ourselves and those in the society we live in. The law tells us that we can go 60kph so we do, regardless of whether we should go that fast or not. The only thing that will slow us down is our own fear of hitting something, or a fine, or the fear of the police. I decided to drive responsibly when I was driving home drunk from my after school piss up in my Toyota corolla with bald tyres and 5 people in the car, and I swerved across the road into the path of a Porsche 911. I missed him by 1cm, and then realised the consequences of what I was doing. I was stupid, but I haven't done it since, and still remember all the details vividly, and learnt a lesson. We have to live with the laws we have, but more importantly we have to live with our sense of responsibility and the consequences of our actions when we are irresponsible. Living by the one law, "Act Responsibly" makes all the other laws irrelevant. If you drive at 140kph on a freeway when there are no other cars and the BMW or Merc you are driving safely does 250kph in Germany on an autobahn, then you may just be driving responsibly. If you do 110 on the same freeway in peak hour 2 metres from the car in front in your swing axle beetle in a cross wind, then you are an irresponsible idiot. Unfortunately it's the only rule that will save lives, and the planet, and society as a whole.
Have you noticed that our world legislates everything? That is because people have absconded their responsibility for their actions. I have public liability insurance because if someone trips over my equipment they will sue ME. WHAT!!? Shouldn't I sue them for damaging my gear? It's easier for them to sue me and win because the law doesn't assume that people take responsibility for their actions. Life is getting too hard because we can't go 10 metres down the road without seeing five signs that tell us to do, or not do something. Imagine a street with NO signs, Just trees. Think about it next time you drive. It's disgusting and wreaks of big brother constantly pointing a finger at us, or a camera constantly watching and waiting for us to fall so the govt can mail us a bill. This place has become a disgusting place to be in too many ways.
"Tell him 'We've already got one'"
I think it is very simple.... don't complicate a simple matter.. kombidog goes and picks up these messes every day and sees first hand what this does to familys.
All i can gather from people here is that there shouldn't be any law about drink/drug driving???? keep it simple fellas.
Driving home pissed is irresponsible and I have done it before but now if I am going to have a big one, I get a friend to drive (It is called growing up and becoming responsible). The speed limits on our roads are usually ignored unless there is a Camera or a Copper in the vicinity. As for drug tests, they are here whether we want them or not, it is clothed in spin about keeping our raods safe but does it really do anything? I think not, it gets maybe one or two drug Fu**ed individuals but the rest keep on going.
Driving around now is all about being paranoid about speed limits, watching the speedo instead of the road, avoiding the twit in front of you who has stopped in the middle of the main road for no reason at all, waiting for soem nong to pull out of a side street or servo in front of a line of speeding traffic. The worst place to drive is around schools, the kids who run out onto the roads, the mums who park across intersections, block a line of traffic to let their kid out of the car all because they are too lazy to park the car and walk the kid into school. Even better is to watch these same drivers in a parking lot of any Mall, they drive with tunnel vision, narrowly miss the parked vehicles around them, take 5 goes to park their big 4wd in two parking spots.
These drivers aren't drug affected, they aren't drunk......they are just drivers who cant control the vehicle they are in. I wont go on about the Asian drivers in fancy Mercedes, Jap sports cars, BMW's etc.. who can drive in 3 lanes similtaneously.......dont believe me.....drive around Eastwood or Chatswood.........it is truly a terrifying place to drive....
It wont be long before the Government forces us to have a tracking unit mounted in each of our cars, so as to Govern our speed, how long we have driven without a break and monitor on the steering wheel to test if we are drug or alcohol affected before we drive. This is big brother, welcome to Australia, a land of freedoms............no free thought anymore, we are told how and what to think by the Government... Sprouting off about getting drunks and drug affected drivers off our road is in theory a good idea, but to do this the current way would involve immense loss of personal freedoms. Nobody likes being told what to do, yet we take it lying down from the Government.......Time to wake up and do somethign about it whilst we still can!!!!
No More of NSW, the Police State....were you pay for the privilege of being told what to do!
All i can gather from people here is that there shouldn't be any law about drink/drug driving???? keep it simple fellas.
Just hit account type and put in your pin thanks sir.
" You're not a team player "
it would be hard to a job like the job that kombidog does i really dont know how you do it,
i work with people that go straight from work to the pub stay there a few hours fill them selfs up drive home and think its ok because another guy was more pissed when he drove home , they all panic when the cops come around ????????? so why not find a local closer to home and walk or get a cab i say , the answer is they dont have titty girls at those places, so for a selfish drunken pervert with no mates unless its his shout which a few have allready been done dui they wont stop untill it gets ugly in there family or closer to home because it always hurts the innocent
If only we could test all our politicians, and fine them too....
Its called the 'high end' of town for a reason.
Make all the drugs legal.
Improve public transport.
Improve education on responsible use of all drugs.
Take everyone for a cruise in a kombi.
kkk
And put some Neil Young on the 8 track as you head north with a honey by your side and a well running 2 litre:kiss
" You're not a team player "
Its a shame the poeple that make these rules (politicians) get pissed every lunch time while in parliment but thats ok cause we live in a alcohol society.
Its ok to go to the pub every night and get pissed then go home and beat up the misses, but don't go having a toke on a joint or you will be made a criminal.
They first payed the early settlers with Brandy, I guess we have not moved on too far from ther.
they don't charge people for taking a toke..... . you might get a slap on the wrist if your unlucky..... this is about people driving when high.
They also should test for stress levels.. i know i have been driving when i was really pissed off then woke up in the car really dizzy.... work that out!!
dude!
dude
neil young! now we are talkin momma... yeeeeaahhhh... i do however disagree with koolkarmakombi's 'make all the drugs legal' line though....
its like giving someone a gun and telling them never to use it! "oh here are some hard core drugs to go get fucked on but dont drive... and being responible and educated as you are 'supposed' to be im sure you wont get behind the wheel and run over momma dirt crossin the road cos the cops will know, you know....???"
everything dies baby, thats a fact..
maybe everything that dies one day comes back..
put your make up on and your hair up pretty..
and meet me tonight in Atlantic city..
So let me get this straight. Not trying to take the pi** out of anyones arguement but from what I read there seems to be almost two camps on this.
First is one side who feel that driving either drunk or stoned is either okay or should be condoned because they have either done it themselves or that the legal limit is to low because they have drunk over the limit and know what they are capable of. That the laws that are in place are either irrelevant or overlegislated to govern the few not all of society.
Then the others say that driving drunk or stoned is wrong, and should never be done.
For the first group, why do you think that there are laws? could it be because society wants or needs them to function? otherwise how would things operate, such as schools, road repairs etc? user pays? but why pay if there are no laws.
Lowest common denominator? why not because it has to be assumed that we are all equal, otherwise there is truely a case for discriminatory action.
For those who think that they can drive when either over .05 or stoned etc. How do you know this? is it because you made it home without killing/injuring anyone? or have you subjected yourself to medical testing where your reflexes, vision and cognitive functions have been analysed and determined to be unique in society and unimpaired by any influence?
I seriously doubt it is the second as your name and face would be in scientific journals and you would be capable of earning massive dollars in medical research. So I am guessing it is the second, and you know what. I bet you were affected by whatever it was, far more than you realise and it was pure luck that you are still alive, unharmed and that no-one else was hurt in the process.
For anyone who thinks that we are over legislated, yes I agree we may be, but until society decides that it is wrong and things all the way from fraudulant unemployment and other pension claims to reckelss endangerment, murders, muggings, theft etc are eliminated from the human psyche, I am glad we have the laws we do. Ever seen what happens when the laws get removed? particulalry if guns are available (and sometimes just knives or bare hands?). Makes me exceptionally glad that I live in Australia.
For anyone who thinks that there are too many laws, or that big brother is here. Crap, try going somewhere that doesn't have them and I bet you are screaming for help the first time someone points a gun at you, drives past and hits you or steals your wallet/purse.
As I said before, the drug tests are here, they may not work properly, but unless you (the Victorians, not anyone in Sydney,brisbane or elsewhere) vote to get rid of them, they are here to stay.
Do you really think that the cost of the testing versus the number of people that will be caught is evenue raising?
if you do can I have a job, of course, I'll just turn up to work drunk and drive your car about. You have no problems with that do you??
Yes people break laws all the time. I probably drove at 105kmph this morning. yes I know that was wrong, but even the police would probably not book me for doing that. If I serioulsy broke the limit, then I deserve whatever comes my way. Get real people!
Unless you can bet your life (and I mean really your life) and those of everyone on the road with you, their families and the people who have to scrape your bloody intestines off the roadway afterwards (reckon they don't have memories? bet they do and that they have better nightmares than the rest of us).
Don't do it!
Its illegal to do drugs. Fullstop, end of discussion, if not please point out the law that says you can?
Illegal to drive drunk, yes I know alcohol can be interpreted to be a drug of choice, but its legal at the moment just as cigarettes are. (another 'free' choice that is inflicted on everyone regardless of inhaling or not)
[Edited on 20-12-2004 by penguin]
[Edited on 20-12-2004 by penguin]
'Ah, whatever................'
The Law is an Ass!!
I am tired of being over governed, told how to behave or I'll be fined, lose my privleges and get sent to my room and not given dinner! Yes there are laws there, people will always break the laws, no matter how stringently they are policed. Everything we do can be viewed two ways, It is you who is responsible for your own actions, not the Government. It is we who have to grow up and take responsibility for our behaviour, realise that what we do is visible to many young impressionable minds. Watch what your kids say and do if you need a reminder....
I dont do drugs, I will have a drink, I smoke and I have been known to exceed the speed limit by large amounts. Whose is the one responsible for my driving like one "whoosh car boys....no one else's other than my own..
wish i could only see in black & white...
things would be much simpler then...
Tunnel Vision, Black and white would make nice and simple...
where's the accountability?? this is so wrong.
Police won't apologise to innocent drug test driver
December 22, 2004 - 12:10PM
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A driver picked up under ground-breaking roadside drug testing in Melbourne last week is demanding an apology after police tests today confirmed his innocence.
John De Jong, of Ballarat, was said to have tested positive to amphetamines and cannabis when he was pulled over in his work van last week.
Mr De Jong maintained his innocence and said he had last smoked cannabis four weeks before he was tested.
He had his blood sample tested at an independent laboratory, with the results showing no traces of drugs.
Today, Victoria Police told Mr De Jong their own tests had confirmed he was innocent.
Victoria Police vowed to continue the program and are not offering Mr De Jong an apology for the stress his family has endured.
Mr De Jong today said he was shocked the police were refusing to say sorry.
"They put me in front of the media from the word go, and said I had tested positive to amphetamines and cannabis," he said.
"Their tests and my tests show that not to be true and they are not even willing to apologise - I just think that is wrong."
Advertisement
AdvertisementMr De Jong's wife Kay said the family had been aware of people in Ballarat talking about them, and said her husband deserved an apology.
Their 13-year-old daughter Belinda broke down as she told of the pressure on the family.
"We are very relieved that all this has come out now, that everyone should know now that my dad is an innocent person," Belinda said.
"It has been very hard on us all."
Mr De Jong said he was considering legal action against police.
AAP
[Edited on 22-12-2004 by helterskelter400]
i just think that there needs to be some type of closure on the actual time after smoking that you are able to legally drive (ie: test negative). i know it is an illegal drug and therefore there should be no reason to provide such information, but some choose to use it, and some do use it legally (eg: prescribed for cancer sufferers).
what if you go into a room full of smoke and breathe some in, thats not you're fault but you could test positive when driving later...
To test positive you have to be in the room for a bloody long time, and the smoke has to be damn thick.
Yes its black and white to me on this.
Want to come to my work and see what would happens if someone does drugs? Bet you wouldn't even try it.
For both Freddie and helter, you don't like it, Stiff. Where I work has a no tolerance policy, and thats fine.
I don't care if you think its cool or crap like that.
Guess he's lucky that THC only stays in the bodies fat for a few days if you use it a bit. It 'fades' after a few days depending on intensity of either the product or the usage. But as it is a narcotic, if you have it on prescription, you shouldn't be driving.
I agree that the Vic Police shouldn't apologise, they didn't say he was definitely positive, the press did.They merely stated that he had returned a result and that tests wrere being carried out.
'Ah, whatever................'
Typical Victorian pleece, shoot first then ask questions.
" You're not a team player "
It's not black and white, never is.
But it's easier to dumb down the populace and treat them as sheeple that way.
I'd never work anywhere that demands silly and invasive personal tests like that. No need to put up with that shit just yet.
" You're not a team player "
How is it not black and white.
Are drugs legal? I mean marijuana and such, not perscription dealt medicals.
yes or no?
Can you drive or operate a car/machinery when you have taken drugs? Yes or no? (I mean legally, not physically)
where is the grey?
There is none.
Quit trying to say that the Govt coming down on all of us, or that we are over governed. Go somewhere overseas where there is no where near the 'civil rights' you have here. Bet the first thing you do is scream that the Govt didn't so enough to help you.
F off. take acount of your own actions.
[Edited on 22-12-2004 by penguin]
'Ah, whatever................'
I am with penguin on this one, I have been reading this from the start and only bothered to reply now.
Fact, In a previous job I saw the effects drink and drugs (legal and illegal) have on drivers.
When you have attended an accident and you see children dead in a vehicle that was hit by a person so stoned out of their brains they didnt even know they had been involved in a motor vehicle accident, then comment on the acceptability of drugs or drink.
Fact, We vote for politicians, they make the laws(I know I am simplifying it), these laws are there for a purpose, if we chose to break the law we should accept the penalty.
I cant belive the amount of times I have heard "I didnt think I would get caught" or " I thought I was O.K. to drive", or " I have been drinking the same amount every Friday and never had an accident before".
Fact It is against the law, so dont do it.
In my opinion, the more people that get caught and fined or lose their driving privalage the better, that way others will see that it is not acceptable.
My opinion and if you dont agree I dont care.
Cheers
Dave
