but truely it is not. i am curious as to others thoughts. and want to opena discussion... not attack. remember you can always post on my critism thread if you cant talk fairly here.
i understand and accept the terrible tragedy of the tsunami, but how is it that the goverment or those involve can afford to give so much to overseas aid? for hospitals, schools medicines and all else, when here at home, we cant afford to maintain our own hospitals, upgrade our own roads, and look after or own?
i understand support and help, but are we going too far?
where will the moeny come from, when we say we cant give more here?
who ends up paying? does it mean our taxes rise again, but yet we will still ahve long long waiting lists for surgeries, and poor roads and other problems with our own society?
what effect will it have on our system down the track?
how much will we actually give (understanding that in the past many pledges are not fulfilled)?
Simply Cruzin'...
Unfortunately, I was thinking of this today, we give so much (they need it) but what about home?..... a tough topic mate..
maybe get it from the ansett levy :duh
green57 wrote:Unfortunately, I was thinking of this today, we give so much (they need it) but what about home?..... a tough topic mate..
maybe get it from the ansett levy :duh
i was thinking that too in NZ they have a natural disaster or war levy for $15 pa on cars or houses if something like that happens and ur uninsured that $15 covers u
i think thats an awesome idea
As for us home i seriously think Australian tourism will benefit from this tragedy as all the european etc will be scared to go back to those islands and come to our beutiful country instead
so maybe the govt knows about my theory and decided to even it out:duh
...it is money in kind...military aid etc.....salaries already being paid for ....better training than reading books and sitting at home...this is real life need ...
Already military medical teams are in there....they can also help rebuild roads and services....we do rely heavily on our Asian neighbours as they do us...it's looking after our own back door....without trade with tyhese countries and their use of our education system we would be in trouble....
OK I know the influx of Asian students inpacts on our own kids but I was at uni when there were big cuts...our tertiary institutions were left to suffer with the election of the Liberal government
TGs
I think it is more a matter of you cant afford NOT to.
Pretty much as jen said
Futue te ipsum!!!
...I've worked in our hospital system...it has also suffered in the same period......
At the moment these people are suffering more than we can imagine....lets hope it all evens out and we have to have faith in our generosity...
It was great that there was a service in Indonesia with all religious factions coming together in mourning for their lost loved ones.....if anything good is to come out of this maybe it is that there will be more religious tolerance in the region
On the face of it, I agree with you and think that it is rather hypocritical of the Government and it reeks of politics. I am saddened by the disaster, the destruction and loss of life to Sri Lanka, Indonesia and the Maldives but as you have stated, how is it that this money is available for all these good (and necessary deeds) when there are so many needy and deprived here at home in Australia suffering.
What about the Government surplus, there is a lot more than 30 million dollars in the Government coffers!
Why is it that our roads and Hospitals fallinto chronic states of disrepair when there is all this money available.?
Increasing our taxes to pay for this isn't fine, keeping these people alive and healthy is what is really needed. I wonder whether this is a secret way to increase the regions dependence on Australia, to make us a more dominant world player or is it to show the rest f the world that we care. I suspect a primary motive of helping out during the crisis but I also strongly suspect ulterior motives and power play games from our Government in creating deppendant economies and thus influence can be exerted within the region. There is politics involved here, somewhere......the stench is over powering!!
[Edited on 6-1-2005 by Freddie Fender]
real, not plastic! Chrome, chrome and more chrome.
There is always politics involved....but lets hope that there is also more compassion that politics involved.....keep the presure up on them.....trying to be the optimist here...
God I can't imagine what these people are going through......and the amazing people who are giving their time to help.....I worked with death...but nothing to this scale.....my hat is off to anyone over there right now helping....FARK... lets just help these people...we are so comfortable over here......always so easy to winge....our education and health system will be always in trouble with the way they have it set up
Although I think our country could do with some more $$ into our health, roads & education...
but we didn't just lose 70 000 australians in one week.
We have it easy here in Australia compared to most of the world
Jon
call it a strategic investment.. one that will pay huge dividends at some stage over the next 50 year cycle..
maybe georgie bush is pulling on little johnies puppet strings so western influence is greater through this region:blush
but on a realistic note every little bit helps and as l aussies and human beings we help no matter where or what crisis as maybe one day it might be our turn:o
meetings 1st sunday of the month
check wbsite for location
All Welcome
http://www.flatfour.org/
and on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/FlatFourYes, we have much to be thankful for. I am all for helping others in times of need but not at the expense of the less fortunate here in our own country. Have a look around at the mental health system if you want to discover where those who are outcasts here live and have to deal with daily. This area of public health is forgotten by all as a taboo subject.
Look at the elderly and what little help they get. Look at our poice forces, our military, our schools and our insurances. Do you feel that we are being fleeced by stealth, legally of course but we are definitely being systematically forced to pay more and more for little or no gain in the key areas of public spending that is what we all seem most concerned about!
I am not demeaning the losses these countries have faced but commenting on the hypocritical nature of the Government here. Seen to be doing one thing but at the expense of the needy in our own Backyard!!
real, not plastic! Chrome, chrome and more chrome.
It's like this: You are having trouble affording the rego on the third car this year (again) while your neighbour has just had his 1979 Commodore taken out in a big storm and has no way of getting to work to feed his family. No insurance, nothing. Multiply that by many thousands, include a horrendous loss of life and you get the picture.
The true Aussie will give you the shirt off his back if it's all he has left to give. The fact is we are being un-australian if we dont act in a similar way now.
[Edited on 6-1-2005 by sax]
" You're not a team player "
I agree Freddie , close the institutions send em out with their medication (if they remember to take it ) into group houses if they are lucky and its look after yourself guys welcome to the real world :cussing
meetings 1st sunday of the month
check wbsite for location
All Welcome
http://www.flatfour.org/
and on Facebook
https://www.facebook.com/FlatFourthe morew money western fellas like us put into clean up and repair, the more we can mould them into our image. the new indonesia sri lanka thailand etc will be macdonalds this starbucks that methinks. tourism will hit huge heights in australia, with the european market scared of the archipelago or whatever it is.
we can certainly afford this, when you think about it we are one of the richest nations around, blessed by beauty (me) and health (not my liver). the money invested in indonesia will come back very soon.
being unemployed, i am keen to get over there and aid the clean up in person, does anyone know where i can sign up?
well bleeding hearts cop this,
Who the bloody hell does jack boot johnny think he is ??? jumps on a jet --funded by guess who with deep pockets:: grabs a handfull of journos to take along for the ride ,gives his bum punching mate downs syndrome a whistle to jump on board and proceeds to spend ONE BILLION dollars of your money folks, not his ,not downs syndrome, but yours and mine ,then parades around making all the politically correct noises and says what a wonderful country are we ...
Meanwhile back in the land of make believe we have record taxes per capita ,people living and dying in the streets due to lack of youth and elderly shelter, highest aboriginal infant mortality rates for indiginious peoples in the western world ,teenage youth suicide --no funds available for help lines, medicare - the medical system you have when you dont really have one , hospital waiting lists so long they go out of sight , pensioners virtually starving, nursing homes that swipe the pensions and feed them a bit of shit once a day to keep them alive till the next generous handout comes along ,abbot and costello,the comedy company, playing with doctors and making sure they dont get to the bush where they might make a real difference ---how much further could i go???
COLD BLOODY OATH im freezing but who cares as long as its got its snout on the tv
...it's an unfortunate term that they use now ....right to risk....so many elderly still in their homes in a terrible state with dementia...it's so hard to get them into care...they have to be at 'risk' before anything can be done......and this 'risk' is usually great...it is not until they end up in hospital and no longer able to be quickly sent home that anything is done to help them.....'quality of life' is another term used....keeping them in their own home....to wander off in the rain and get lost...hopefully with someone knowing where they live as these people are often believing they are in a previous time....maybe going to pick kids up from school....going to work....they are not in the here and now...
Dr's and nurses hands are tied in a lot of cases.....families are worn to the bone trying to cope with their aging parents, work and care for their own families.......the people who make these rules need to work in the field to know....
Same in mental health...so many stories....I've travellled in the 'States' 10 years ago there were so many people living on the trains with their bags and using toilets to wash each day....they had no support system basically...all gone...they were literally out in the street....we are going the same way but not so bad yet....I hope we don't ge there
BUT still I do believe we should be helping the victims of the tsunami....what they are going through must be pure unimaginable hell....
I can't believe the low lifes that are moving in to exploit the situation....pedophiles and these adoption scams!!!!! FARK!!!!!!!! HOW LOW CAN SOME PEOPLE BE!!!!!!!
The doctors wont go to the bush because of the crappy coffee.
" You're not a team player "
This is aimed at no one in particular.
To all those who are sitting there feeling that we are being duped, are fleeceing our own people, or whatever.
Fuc* off!!
I make no apologies, and if the mod's want to censor me, so be it.
As far as our medial system is concerned, I have mother who has stage two alzhiemers, and for those who don't l know, that means that on a good day, she knows who I am, on a bad day, well lets now go there.
So thats where I am coming from. I know that she if she was who she was before she forgot, and I, would never argue with the spending of australian money on this sort of thing. Who's looking after our neighbours patients? at least ours have access to some sort of medical system. Who the F* are you to talk about our countries health system? My family are looking after her at home so far, why? because we love her, and we can, regardless of what has happened so far. Who can look after the sick of our neighbours? no one, why, because they are DEAD!
Yes, I am in the military, want to talk to me about it? face to face? I don't give a rats arse who or what you look like, I'll speak to any of you right now, right here! want to hit me or anything, I don't give a !
Do you wonder where your next drink of water is coming from?????
wondered if your house will fall on you or your family?
pull your heads out of your arse and look about. We are one of the richest and luckiest countries on earth. I am not just talking about money here, we are truely a very lucky country.
who are you to day that we should not help out fellow man?????? I bet if you had broken limbs and a few other injuries that you would be asking for help.
I don't give a f* about the politics, sure thats involved, when has it never been involved???
Who introduced hecs? who introduced gst? labour followed by liberal
why did they do it? because they though they had to.
Do I feel like I am useless at this point in time. YES! why? because me and my guys are the ones who produce power, buildings and clean drinkable water. Why do we feel useless? because we can see that we are needed and we aren't able to be in there helping.
Just be grateful to whatever/whoever you believe in that this didn't happen to us. Would anyone of you give something up for a member of your family? So what makes Indonesians/Thais/Sri Lankans/Indians/Swedes/Germans/Brits/French/etc different? want to bet that we don't treat other countries nationals in our med centres????
As for money, who cares if there are political undertones to giving it to Indonesia. When has there ever been a free lunch?? Never.
If it helps people in their time of need and makes our country a little less the enemy in the eyes of the Indonesian people, then who will complain?
if it just helps people in their time of need, then feel happy and have that to travel with you with your karma.
'Ah, whatever................'
Fish look on the aide organisation sites....they are usually after professional people...or those with skills they need...ring around....
Must admit I don't fully read the articles about our LEADERS paying a visit to these disasters... they really don't need to go....it is publicity for them and they take up so much time when the officials there need to be doing other things rather than entertain ....If they do have to go maybe it would be nice if they actually got dirty themselves doing something more useful .....
Have to say that when i heard 1 billion $$'s i thought way thats alot!
I agree with some , 1 billion is too much when your own backyard is going nuts! However we have to help out.
One thing i heard that makes a joke of this was on the news. They were rating who's giving the most aid by country and being rated.
Just seemed abit tasteless , almost making a competition from the horror of whats gone on.
Dan😉
"If i had to explain you wouldnt understand"
The Lower Class
penguin ... no censoring ...well said :kiss
...your mother has a good family
NOt wanting to piss you off TG, but I bet your thoughts would change if you were there....I mean We have food on the table, a roof over our heads CLEAN water to drink, and yet we ask where is the money gonna come from.....Im sure a few of the promises Johnny made will be broken, which will suck, but at the same time 150K people have died, millions other homeless, Im sure the 1 billion we are giving them prolly wont even start the work towards the rebuild of these countries....I was in thailand not long ago, and I will be going bak later this year, this has only reinforced me going, cause I would love to see my money go to rebuilding their tourism industry (as little money as I will have anyway!). I can however Understand your frustration regarding things that need Fixing in our own backyard, but damn man, I would rather live here with the problems we have compared to living there......
As I said NOt to piss anyone off, Thats just my 2c.
Nectar.
i agree with penguin and nectar
and what was said previously too is true an aussie would give the shirt off his back:sandrine
penguin wrote:This is aimed at no one in particular.
To all those who are sitting there feeling that we are being duped, are fleeceing our own people, or whatever.
Fuc* off!!
I make no apologies, and if the mod's want to censor me, so be it.
As far as our medial system is concerned, I have mother who has stage two alzhiemers, and for those who don't l know, that means that on a good day, she knows who I am, on a bad day, well lets now go there.
So thats where I am coming from. I know that she if she was who she was before she forgot, and I, would never argue with the spending of australian money on this sort of thing. Who's looking after our neighbours patients? at least ours have access to some sort of medical system. Who the F* are you to talk about our countries health system? My family are looking after her at home so far, why? because we love her, and we can, regardless of what has happened so far. Who can look after the sick of our neighbours? no one, why, because they are DEAD!
Yes, I am in the military, want to talk to me about it? face to face? I don't give a rats arse who or what you look like, I'll speak to any of you right now, right here! want to hit me or anything, I don't give a !
Do you wonder where your next drink of water is coming from?????
wondered if your house will fall on you or your family?
pull your heads out of your arse and look about. We are one of the richest and luckiest countries on earth. I am not just talking about money here, we are truely a very lucky country.
who are you to day that we should not help out fellow man?????? I bet if you had broken limbs and a few other injuries that you would be asking for help.
I don't give a f* about the politics, sure thats involved, when has it never been involved???
Who introduced hecs? who introduced gst? labour followed by liberal
why did they do it? because they though they had to.
Do I feel like I am useless at this point in time. YES! why? because me and my guys are the ones who produce power, buildings and clean drinkable water. Why do we feel useless? because we can see that we are needed and we aren't able to be in there helping.
Just be grateful to whatever/whoever you believe in that this didn't happen to us. Would anyone of you give something up for a member of your family? So what makes Indonesians/Thais/Sri Lankans/Indians/Swedes/Germans/Brits/French/etc different? want to bet that we don't treat other countries nationals in our med centres????
As for money, who cares if there are political undertones to giving it to Indonesia. When has there ever been a free lunch?? Never.
If it helps people in their time of need and makes our country a little less the enemy in the eyes of the Indonesian people, then who will complain?
if it just helps people in their time of need, then feel happy and have that to travel with you with your karma.
I agree with that. We ARE very lucky. just imagine if we were the ones to be hit and cop 70,000-whatever dead. We would expect everyone to come to our aid. Why shouldn't we help them? Two thumbs up Penguin for having the guts to say what should be said!
THe MC Bat Commander's motto: "Never do now, what you could do for 24 hours straight, all night, the night before."
well said penguin.
O.K.
Here I go.
I can see what Twoguns is on about, and yes I agree, we should look after our own first.
One other thing just to put the cat amongst the pigeons.
Remember when the bali bombing happened and we all donated money to the red cross, then there was the problem with them not giving the people the money and using it for other projects in other countries around the world.
Whos to say that the money will go the the people affected by this tragedy.???
Cynical yes I am.
Its the same when they had the benefit concerts for the farmers when we had the drought a couple of years ago and they raised millions for them, they have since had bumper crops, where are the farmers offering to give some money back.????
One of the reasons I have become this cynical is I work from home and not a week goes by that some backpackers arnt knocking on my door collecting for charities, I ask them if they are collecting for free, they all say that it is a good earner for them, and this is how they can afford to travel the world. They get paid a percentage of what the collect, then there bosses get paid and so on.
How much are the bosses of these companies actually giving to the people that need it???
Cheers
Dave
its not 1billion in one go... its a total of 1billion over 5 years, which to me seems alot more helpful...
half in monetary aid, and half in food/housing/health. slowly and compassionately rebuilding the lives of millions of people. dont forget 81million has been DONATED by the australian public alone!!
i think its great that our government is putting its better foot first and helping out in such a big way... who cares about the politics.
in the beginning, the universe was created.
this made alot of people very angry and is widely regarded as a bad move.
Actually I think its about a total of 1.8 billion over 40 yrs.
500 Million is direct aid and 500 million is a no interest loan over 40yrs. the other .8 billion is whatever else we have pledged or spent already.
'Ah, whatever................'
I think alot of people born here can't really comprehend what poverty is, and really can comprehend the devastation of what has just happened.
These poor people were born with nothing;and had it bad before the tsunami, and have now lost even that! I know as I was born in this region and think its a #!$@ joke to hear about how hard things are getting here blah blah blah...I've seen what having nothing is with my own eyes!! The value systems are like chalk and cheese.
Lets share the wealth.
We are a blessed country because for what we do for others, and when all is said and done $ is of no value when you have lost a loved one. What we do for others will come back tenfold...
We all need to have some perspective, while we sit here in the comfort and safety of a nice home with a loving, healthy family, on the latest computer, with the luxury of a full belly, with a driveway of not just one vehicle while a child has just seen her whole family vanish in a second!
2guns I do see your point mate, and thought a valid one I feel that under the current circumstances countries like us/we are the only ones that keep this world from falling apart and have to do whatever it takes to help out...
And for all those out there doing their part to help out, well done.
Wayne
