Best Steering for EJ20T Conversion?

exwrx Learner Dubber

16 posts · joined May 2004 · 23 Mar 2005, 1:12 pm

#324191

Hi guys,

I have been lurking for a while and have finally decided to bite the bullet and build a project car, consisting of an L bug with EJ20T conversion.

My dilemma is this - I am looking for a late L bug with the R&P steering, but have not seen one for sale for yonks. There are quite a few 73's with the steering box around, but I am not sure if this is the best way to go. Having owned a 73 L ages ago the steering was fine, but I want the best possible basis for my project.

So, is the R&P L bug (74-75?) significantly better, and would parts be easy to source if I go down this track, or am I better off with the tried and proved recirculating ball setup?

Thanks, and if anyone has a suitable project car for sale, let me know. Mechanicals/suspension/interior unimportant, as long as the body and pan are in reasonable shape.

Doug Sweetman Nil Bastardo Carborundum

2,128 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 23 Mar 2005, 1:52 pm

#324229

R&P bugs were 75 only in Aus (though I guess a couple might have slipped out early or late), and you are right, they are better than a 73, though I've never driven a R&P bug myself.

I drive a 73 (early strut design) myself.

You can, with a little modification, install a passat r&p into any L bug - if you talk to Steve Carter on here somewhere, I believe he has done that mod.

Doug Sweetman Nil Bastardo Carborundum

2,128 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 23 Mar 2005, 1:53 pm

#324231

I found the U2U that steve sent me when I asked him this question;

Hi Doug

I fiited a r&p to my 72 Superbug, it was a lot of work but I feel it was worth doing.
A few tips:
1 take accurate measurements from the doner car
2 you will need to remove a brace from below the spare wheel well.
3 I needed to dimple the chassis to clear the rack, either use a 75 or later pan, dimple the pan or cut out the section and weld in a 1/2 circle section.
4 i needed to slighty dimple the body to clear the steering coupling.
5 I made up my own captive nuts to hold the rack onto the rails and just cut a slit in the inner guard and slipped it in and then welded up the hole.
6 learn to drive your car again, the steering is that sharp.

My car has been in Fast 4s about 15 years ago and Hot 4s a couple of years ago with another yellow bug that looked simliar to mine.

Regards Steve

Doug Sweetman Nil Bastardo Carborundum

2,128 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 23 Mar 2005, 1:53 pm

#324232

Although I think he is talking about retro fitting the r&p from a 75 into a 72 S bug.

Jeza Officially Full-On Dubber

353 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 23 Mar 2005, 6:06 pm

#324390

There are numerous discussions on fitting r&p into earlier supers on germanlook.com. The most recent one has some of the better info, and Steve effectively mentioned exactly the same as above. http://www.germanlook.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=5666

You can ignore my comments on the Akerman angle, a freind of mine explained how it would work with the rack in the factory location 🙂

If I was going to do the project car thing properly I think I'd swap to r&p, but for now I think I'll sort out the box as best possible.

Cheers
Jeremy

......random gibberish for today.......

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 24 Mar 2005, 8:35 am

#324768

I owned a 75 L bug with R&P. It will not handle any better than any other strut front bug. Whether it has a rack or a steering box does not change the suspension or it's geometry, and that's what effects the handling.

The rack changes the feel between the steering and the driver. Sure the rack has nicer feel and does get the flat spots and free play as easily as a steering box, but it's not that much better. You'd be better spending your money on a new steering box than a rack and pinion conversion, in my opinion anyway.

Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

exwrx Learner Dubber

16 posts · joined May 2004 · 24 Mar 2005, 1:09 pm

#324911

Thanks for the helpful comments guys.

I will keep looking for the elusive 75 L, and if nothing comes up in the next couple of months, whatever else is suitable.

Plan is for a german looker with upgraded brakes & suspension, so together with the subie motor, should be fun :thumb

I will report back. 😉

Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l

12,789 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 24 Mar 2005, 6:50 pm

#325052

There is a brand new steering box on ebay at the moment for $500 🙁

Futue te ipsum!!!

malcolm Insano Dub Head

812 posts · joined Nov 2004 · 26 Mar 2005, 12:09 am

#325508

exwrx have you spoke to a vicroads engineer about your project . using a late model engine in a beetle you will need to use the original ecu ,the body and pan torsion tested,upgrade brakes plus run the heater wheels no bigger than 6.5" and now you might have to comply with 2005 ADRS this is what I,m going throw at the moment so get your car on an engineer books now.

akean1 Remember To Love

1,088 posts · joined Dec 2004 · 26 Mar 2005, 11:13 am

#325594

i picked up a super steering box from wreckers with the paint still intact on the adjustment screw for $40. that was one of my luckier days

exwrx Learner Dubber

16 posts · joined May 2004 · 29 Mar 2005, 11:37 am

#326688

Hi Malcolm, I havent spoken to an enginner yet, can you recommend one you are happy with?

I plan on using the original ecu, torsion test should be interesting, but I will do whatever the enginner recommends regarding stregthening (cabriolet reinforcement rails?) brakes will be upgraded, heater will be run, rims might be a problem but if I run porsche components then I will try to get porsche rims certified. ADR's will be interesting if we have to prove compliance rather than rely on subaru specs.

Thanks for the help, and I am happy to chat to you about it further if you want.

Cheers

malcolm wrote:exwrx have you spoke to a vicroads engineer about your project . using a late model engine in a beetle you will need to use the original ecu ,the body and pan torsion tested,upgrade brakes plus run the heater wheels no bigger than 6.5" and now you might have to comply with 2005 ADRS this is what I,m going throw at the moment so get your car on an engineer books now.

VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome

5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 · 29 Mar 2005, 1:15 pm

#326754

malcolm wrote:exwrx have you spoke to a vicroads engineer about your project . using a late model engine in a beetle you will need to use the original ecu ,the body and pan torsion tested,upgrade brakes plus run the heater wheels no bigger than 6.5" and now you might have to comply with 2005 ADRS this is what I,m going throw at the moment so get your car on an engineer books now.

When did all this stuff come in/change? Wheels, brakes - yeah fair enough, but a torsion test? WTF?

Pay your debts, CxxT

Brad Wolfsburg Elder

3,764 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 30 Mar 2005, 10:17 am

#327212

mm Torsion Testing ??? I agree with VWCOOL and WTF ??? How can you torsion test a complete beetle ? There is no compliance specs for them.

When we do a Torsion and Beaming test we must make the tested vehcile comply to the specs of the unmodified vehicle. That means we use a base model beetle and make the chop top match that. If you aren't modifying the body shell then it shouldn't need testing. Easy way to make $500 out of people though.

Has VIC roads get a pdf on their requirments ?

Brad
Why copy when you can own an original ?
Meyers Manx Australia

malcolm Insano Dub Head

812 posts · joined Nov 2004 · 2 Apr 2005, 11:08 pm

#329159

engineering in vic is getting harder and the engineer I,m using has a jig for doing the torsion test this is because I,m using a late model engine and if I was using a aircooled vw engine I wouldn,t need the torsion test. but I,m also doing major suspension mods as well so this is also I might have to comlpy with current adrs.