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Link Pin shims question (urgent!)

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Chewy Fahrvergnugen

889 posts · joined Jul 2004 ·

#336326
Is it OK to use 10 link pin shims without the dust cap on an 8 shim bug?
is that the only difference, the dust cap?

or are the torsion arms/spindles different?

the reason I ask is because the torsion arm offset is 10mm on one side (due to welding in a centre adjuster a couple mil out) which is out of the reach of adjustment 8 shims, whereas it can almost be corrected with 10 shims.

Also, would it be possible to slip an extra shim in on the top making it 8 shims top/3 shims bottem??
or will that cause problems ?

Any help greatly appreciated.
Also I do not know if my steering knuckles are pre-60 or post-60 as I did an exchange for rebuilt ones.
Is there anyway to tell?
I got 40 shims with the rebuid kit

thanks!
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Chewy Fahrvergnugen

889 posts · joined Jul 2004 ·

#336370
when the offset is measured, should the arms be in the position they would be in when the link carrier is attached (ie jacked up)
or just hanging limp?
all the manuals seem to be doing it with the lower arms dangling but none say anything about it.
seems like a bad way to do it as if the arm droops more than usual it will give a greater off-set measurement than it should be.
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Chewy Fahrvergnugen

889 posts · joined Jul 2004 ·

#336387
hey i like talkin to myself too...

anyway, having a look at a couple of manuals it does indeed apear that the difference between the 8 and 10 shim models is that the dust cap takes the place of two shims leaving 8 for adjustment.
ie, if 3/7 shims were needed on a 10 shim bug, 1/7 would be used on the 8 witht the dustcap taking the place of the two inner shims

so, anyone got any opions on using 8/3 shims to correct the excessive off-set??
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vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#336417
dont think it will matter if you use 10 or 8 shims so long as you measure the off set and set up n shim accordingally.

are you sure the axles and trailing arms arnt bent???? did u have these checked in a VW jig ???
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

Chewy Fahrvergnugen

889 posts · joined Jul 2004 ·

#336431
No but the off-set was good before I welded in adjusters.
The adjusters have moved the whole lot a few mm to the right.

Will I get some freaky handling if the camber on the right is slightly more negative than the left?
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vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#336440
the shims dont adjust the Camber its fixed on a K & L

the shims are to adjust the axle into correct position so it travels up n down without binding up on the pins.
the only thing adjustable is the toe in toe out on a K & L

if arms n axlesare bent then it throws everything out.

have you fitted castor shims behind the lower axle... you can do taht after you adjust the axle set up no probs and it wont moove too much around.

if you fit more shims to one side on the axle tahn the other you will find that the arm bind up when traveling up n down as your driving along
hope that makes sense ???
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome

5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·

#336527
Chewy wrote:when the offset is measured, should the arms be in the position they would be in when the link carrier is attached (ie jacked up)
or just hanging limp?
all the manuals seem to be doing it with the lower arms dangling but none say anything about it.
seems like a bad way to do it as if the arm droops more than usual it will give a greater off-set measurement than it should be.
No it won't... the tubes, and therefore the arc of the arms, are parallell... It just looks that way due to optical illusion 😉
Pay your debts, CxxT

splitbusaustralia Wolfsburg Wizard

487 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#336983
Dave,

the link pin shims do both! They do stop binding - that's
why you have to have a minimum of 3 on any side (like
flywheel shims - first shim acts on the second which acts on the third etc...).

K&L don't have 'adjustable' camber in that sense but they do
have a camber and it is 'set' by the arrangement of link pin
shims.....(well on a splitbus I'm no beetle expert). If it was
'fixed' you would only need 3 shims each side of the pin
to avoid binding and you wouldn't bother measuring and juggling to get the required offset?

In relation to the above, I'd probably chop the adjuster out
and do it again. But if you can achieve the required offset AND manage to keep the minimum required 3 shims on each side of every pin its probably worth a go (and keeping an eye
on tyre wear for a little while...)

regards

RobK

Chewy Fahrvergnugen

889 posts · joined Jul 2004 ·

#337304
SPA is right about the shims setting the K+L camber, however any deviation from the stock 1/2 degree neg camber would likely cause link pin binding. so not really ajustable.
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vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#338042
The shims are to adjust any irragularties in the arms. some sit in the tube futher than other.... most of the time you use the stock set up.... when the bushes are replace and reamed they dont all come out the same so hence the shims.... not for camber
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

Marineboy Seriously Crusin Dubber

168 posts · joined Nov 2003 ·

#338083
Hmmm, I ajusted my camber (Slightly But noticeably) with the Shims om my King and Link pin front on my Manx...

But I am no expert and well I did keep the 3 shim Min and just added to the bottom and took some from the top, difference of 3 or 4 I think.

I ran this by my friendly VW repairer after he noticed my camber out on one. I measured, looked at the table and just ajusted what it told me to achieve a little extra.

So I think if your not to greedy you can give it a go...
But I would talk to a bloke in the know so you know what is Too Greedy..

Enjoy..
http://fans.gorillaz.com/images/main/geep.jpg

Chewy Fahrvergnugen

889 posts · joined Jul 2004 ·

#338194
Its all good, had the lower arms on the wrong sides, all fine now. :blush

VW54 It has to adjust camber too.. if you have more shims at the top than bottem (ignoring arm iregularities) then the top of the nuckle will be tilted outwards changing camber from stock 1/2 degree.

True they are not for adjusting camber, but the shims can and do change/set camber depending where you put them.

thanks for the help anyway guys
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vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#338302
try it and see it the arms bind up when travelling through the swing arc, ive read the wrokshop manuals from top to bottom of 40hp stuff n there aint no mention of camber adjustment as we know it, it the later model torsion bar front ends and MacStruts

Any way did u get some 1/2 shims to ut behind the lower torson tube to push it out.

How did you got with the shims how many did you end up using to getg the alignment right ???
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

Chewy Fahrvergnugen

889 posts · joined Jul 2004 ·

#338386
I used 10 shims per pin
one of the off-sets was 5mm and the other was 8mm so within spec
I like the idea of spacing out the torsion arm
BTW my Baja bugs and buggies book is adament(sp?) that the camber is adjusted by the shims
cheers
.