Checked out the site.............yep spot on....name ONE black country that can run itself "properly" with out any "white AID" in one form or another !!
:vader
DOUBLECAB Unwanted member
915 posts · joined May 2005 ·
:vader
Live Aid
:vader
amazer kombi pilot
3,187 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Its got stuff all to do with skin colour, and there are plenty of white arseholes in government spending shitloads on themselves while ordinary people die from causes related to poverty. Look no further than Canberra and Washington in particular. The so called queen of england/australia is another sponge.
I might add that western companies are also major sponsors of the African dictators. One in particular is Shell. And Shell pays taxes to the white "democracies".
I might add that western companies are also major sponsors of the African dictators. One in particular is Shell. And Shell pays taxes to the white "democracies".
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
field Officially Full-On Dubber
205 posts · joined May 2005 ·
i don't see skin colour i see human beings
DOUBLECAB Unwanted member
915 posts · joined May 2005 ·
amazer wrote:Its got stuff all to do with skin colour,
You cant get away from the FACT that the "BLACK" countries are the ones with the major problems and the problems of finance are caused by its Governments!!
and there are plenty of white arseholes in government spending shitloads on themselves while ordinary people
Whats your definition of an "ORDINARY" person ?? ..I hope its not a "Aussie Battler" thats had the same opportunities as most of us but has made all the wrong decisions and then wants somebody to bail them out!
die from causes related to poverty.
Look no further than Canberra and Washington in particular.
Kindly be specific.
The so called queen of england/australia is another sponge.
And some of us would also put certain people on welfare in that catagory.
I might add that western companies are also major sponsors of the African dictators. One in particular is Shell. And Shell pays taxes to the white "democracies".
Western companies pay taxes/royalties to all manner of foreign countries but that does not mean it is their responsibility to administer or determine how those Govts run those countries....as for being "SPONSORS"...thats the biggest crock of shit I've heard for a while:repuke
:vader
DOUBLECAB Unwanted member
915 posts · joined May 2005 ·
field wrote:i don't see skin colour i see human beings
I dont have an issue with their colour...I was just pointing out the FACT that the BLACK countries are the ones with the MAJOR probs......and is that just a coincidence or do BLACK countries/races have some inherent problems/situations that other countries/races...DON'T?
Who do you want to blame....make accountable??
:alien
vwombat Hey Ho - Lets GO!
1,218 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
DOUBLECAB wrote:field wrote:i don't see skin colour i see human beings
I dont have an issue with their colour...I was just pointing out the FACT that the BLACK countries are the ones with the MAJOR probs......and is that just a coincidence or do BLACK countries/races have some inherent problems/situations that other countries/races...DON'T?
Who do you want to blame....make accountable??
:alien
Hey, man! While some "people" might think that you're an ignorant cretin, you're analysis is absolutely right!!!
Those "BLACK" countries do have some problems that others don't and never did. That problem has generally been European colonists (English, French, Belgian, Portugeuse...) with advanced weaponry, an agenda of greed at ANY cost, and a complete attitude of egotistical superiority (particularly but not exclusively in the cases of capitalism and religion).
Most of THOSE BLACK countries have been raped and thieved by generally WHITE cultures, either sucked dry, or puppet stringed to this day by multinationals still carrying on the practice. This is leading us into a world monoculture, an ever widening divide between the rich and poor, the overconsumption of world resources, climate change/disaster and other "FUN" things like that.
Live 8 is about informing the largely ignorant world about the evil "have's", who control the media and do their best to keep the masses stupid so that they can get richer faster. I've travelled extensively, and seen it first hand. Particularly in the United States of America. Hitler was good at manipulating his flock, but it comes nowhere near what the US Admin is capable of. Australia is close on their heels though, as evidenced by the posts you've supplied. Good on ya Johnny!
Keep dumbing down that population Dude!
But hey, maybe these aren't the points you're pushing, and you really are a cretin?
amazer kombi pilot
3,187 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
I guess we have a differnt idea of poverty. No, there probably arent too many emaciated people living in Australia. But there is certainly a lot of them who's lives could be lifted a lot by $100 here and there. But to do that, we would have to disband some of the useless committees that our governments set up. Beazleys mate wouldnt be going on a world tour as thanks for his part in the Latham coup detat.
Some middle eastern, asian countries, south american countries are also repressed and or poverty stricken. For example, have you seen the poor people in India washing their clothes in the Ganges while dead animals and shit float past? Tell me how a Chinese villager gets more money from the factories they work in? Thailand.. Balinese... I can hardly see any of those ordinary people going on an overseas trip soon.
not all australians get the same opportunities. The more money your parents have the better education you can get. Its hard to get anywhere in life without education. Not everyone is at the same level of intelligence so they cant do anything with the education they are provided with. Some kids dont get the support for learning from their parents as others. Aside from school learnings where are kids toaught morals. There's alot of factors behind your ability to succeed in life. Lets just say that we are all geniuses and have doctorates. There arent that many brain surgeon positions available. Some people are bound to be ordinary.
Ordinary people are ordinary...average. My definition of ordinary is someone who doesnt own a dozen houses, or sit on the board of 6 different companies, etc. These people when they make the wrong decision dont need bailing out. They hide behind corporations law and go to work building up another company. Or they sit in parliament for 10 years knowing they will get a lifetime pension, car and other perks.
I had the misfortune of a short association with centrelink. My payment was $314/fortnight. You cannot rent a flat here for less than $100/week. Can you live on $114/fortnight? Thats pretty ordinary, and I was one of the luckier ones. I worked 14 years and couldnt get any of my pension because I am ordinary.
Shell (and I think Mobil) is getting billions of dollars worth of cheap oil from African and South American countries, in return for the money going to corrupt politicians instead of the country. That is sponsorship. Same as welfare cheats are being sponsored by Canberra. Its not right, you want it stopped. You would stop it if you had the power to. Shell has the power.
I've written and re written answers to your specific questions but it is too long winded and political. To explain all my views would need to go off on many tangents and would fill a book. Besides I wont change your mind, as I'm pretty sure you are in it for the aggro.
Some middle eastern, asian countries, south american countries are also repressed and or poverty stricken. For example, have you seen the poor people in India washing their clothes in the Ganges while dead animals and shit float past? Tell me how a Chinese villager gets more money from the factories they work in? Thailand.. Balinese... I can hardly see any of those ordinary people going on an overseas trip soon.
not all australians get the same opportunities. The more money your parents have the better education you can get. Its hard to get anywhere in life without education. Not everyone is at the same level of intelligence so they cant do anything with the education they are provided with. Some kids dont get the support for learning from their parents as others. Aside from school learnings where are kids toaught morals. There's alot of factors behind your ability to succeed in life. Lets just say that we are all geniuses and have doctorates. There arent that many brain surgeon positions available. Some people are bound to be ordinary.
Ordinary people are ordinary...average. My definition of ordinary is someone who doesnt own a dozen houses, or sit on the board of 6 different companies, etc. These people when they make the wrong decision dont need bailing out. They hide behind corporations law and go to work building up another company. Or they sit in parliament for 10 years knowing they will get a lifetime pension, car and other perks.
I had the misfortune of a short association with centrelink. My payment was $314/fortnight. You cannot rent a flat here for less than $100/week. Can you live on $114/fortnight? Thats pretty ordinary, and I was one of the luckier ones. I worked 14 years and couldnt get any of my pension because I am ordinary.
Shell (and I think Mobil) is getting billions of dollars worth of cheap oil from African and South American countries, in return for the money going to corrupt politicians instead of the country. That is sponsorship. Same as welfare cheats are being sponsored by Canberra. Its not right, you want it stopped. You would stop it if you had the power to. Shell has the power.
I've written and re written answers to your specific questions but it is too long winded and political. To explain all my views would need to go off on many tangents and would fill a book. Besides I wont change your mind, as I'm pretty sure you are in it for the aggro.
Chris.... kombi pilot, oval dreamer... finisher #26971 2005 city to surf
boersch Wolfsburg Wizard
407 posts · joined Jun 2004 ·
a concert won't do anythingto stop capitalist pigs raping the planet. bring on the apocalypse i say
in the meantime i'll complete university, get a job, breed and continue the cycle
in the meantime i'll complete university, get a job, breed and continue the cycle
vwombat Hey Ho - Lets GO!
1,218 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
Aggro? Maybe? I just think he's regurgitating codswallop from some other ignoramus.
Some people should be made to just wear a sign saying "ignorant, yet opinionated self-righteous egotist". As an open minded person, you'd just cross to the other side of the street, or change tables at the pub to avoid their drivel. Cant avoid it on here though, and one must do what one can to stop this stuff getting passed on and propagating in the young-un's.
Let them all breed together and live underground like the morlocks! I hear Pauline Hanson is single at the moment. Might be in with a chance mate? Please no eating of us beautiful people though!nn[ Edited on 5-7-2005 by vwombat ]
Some people should be made to just wear a sign saying "ignorant, yet opinionated self-righteous egotist". As an open minded person, you'd just cross to the other side of the street, or change tables at the pub to avoid their drivel. Cant avoid it on here though, and one must do what one can to stop this stuff getting passed on and propagating in the young-un's.
Let them all breed together and live underground like the morlocks! I hear Pauline Hanson is single at the moment. Might be in with a chance mate? Please no eating of us beautiful people though!nn[ Edited on 5-7-2005 by vwombat ]
vwombat Hey Ho - Lets GO!
1,218 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
I wouldn't say that Man. I just think it is a process of education that takes a lot of time, usually decades. When I started High school in 1983, I was an "idiot" for not smoking. By the time I hit grade 12, The smoker's were the idiots. Now smoking is banned to within 4 metres of shops. As the Son of a Father who died of cancer. I think that's a pretty cool thing.boersch wrote:a concert won't do anythingto stop capitalist pigs raping the planet. bring on the apocalypse i say
in the meantime i'll complete university, get a job, breed and continue the cycle
If everyone get's on the case of the World Bank, and all the old boy's running our countries, eventually things may happen. There is really no excuse for apathy. Apathy is the tool of these people. Think about that when you crawl back to your chair in front of the tube and X-Box, preparing to fill your already obese body with nutritionally deficient carcinogens loosly termed "food" by some people.
:pukenn[ Edited on 5-7-2005 by vwombat ]
DOUBLECAB Unwanted member
915 posts · joined May 2005 ·
And I thought this forum was a forum to voice an opinion and have ones opinion disected and questioned rationally... however it dosen't take long for the PERSONAL emotive denegration to raise its ugly head......and its the old story...."If you don't like the message....shoot the messenger!"
So on a lighter note: BUT HOW TRUE?....PONDER ON THIS and then tell me how open minded and rational your responses to my questions have been!
DEMOCRACY?FACTS?BIGOTS?RACISTS?
1.DEMOCRACTIC OPINION: "You are allowed an opinion so long as it does not conflict with anybody elses opinion or the majority opinion."
2.BIGOT: "Somebody that has a different opinion than yourself." (or is that an ill-informed bigot?)
3.INSENSITIVE PERSON: "Somebody that has a different opinion than yourself and tells you their opinion."
4.VOICE OF PREJUDICE: "Somebody that voices a different opinion than the one you wanted to hear."
5.RACIST: Somebody that has a different opinion about racial matters than yourself."
6.SPECIFICS: "A new type of glue."
7.FACTS: "Something a lot of people don't want to beleive."
8.THE TRUTH: Something we all beleive, so long as it's "Our Truth".
9.INTOLERANCE: "Political Correctness."
:vader
So on a lighter note: BUT HOW TRUE?....PONDER ON THIS and then tell me how open minded and rational your responses to my questions have been!
DEMOCRACY?FACTS?BIGOTS?RACISTS?
1.DEMOCRACTIC OPINION: "You are allowed an opinion so long as it does not conflict with anybody elses opinion or the majority opinion."
2.BIGOT: "Somebody that has a different opinion than yourself." (or is that an ill-informed bigot?)
3.INSENSITIVE PERSON: "Somebody that has a different opinion than yourself and tells you their opinion."
4.VOICE OF PREJUDICE: "Somebody that voices a different opinion than the one you wanted to hear."
5.RACIST: Somebody that has a different opinion about racial matters than yourself."
6.SPECIFICS: "A new type of glue."
7.FACTS: "Something a lot of people don't want to beleive."
8.THE TRUTH: Something we all beleive, so long as it's "Our Truth".
9.INTOLERANCE: "Political Correctness."
:vader
vwombat Hey Ho - Lets GO!
1,218 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
Political correctness is a "label" which like any other label can be used and percieved both positively or negatively. Each "ISSUE" however, should be examined and debated rationally regardless of left, right or middle political tendencies.
There are some pretty heavy undercurrents, not really even "hidden" between the lines in your responses that are just plain "stupid" and extremely uninformed. But hey, that's just my opinion. Perhaps you're just not terribly good at making a point?
The point I was trying to make about "BLACK" countries can be read above. It's also true of many other colours, creeds and nations (South America, Asia, Oceania). Either used, abused and left to rot by colonists and multinationals, or still worth further immoral plundering.
Anyway, it's a great show of ego that the points you responded mostly to were sillly, superficial comments about the nature of your brainspace, and not the issues at hand. Something to ponder. It's just supporting the aggro theory unfortunately mate. Again, though, just MY opinion. And please let's not forget this is a Dub forum, and not White Power Australia?!? WTF?
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There are some pretty heavy undercurrents, not really even "hidden" between the lines in your responses that are just plain "stupid" and extremely uninformed. But hey, that's just my opinion. Perhaps you're just not terribly good at making a point?
The point I was trying to make about "BLACK" countries can be read above. It's also true of many other colours, creeds and nations (South America, Asia, Oceania). Either used, abused and left to rot by colonists and multinationals, or still worth further immoral plundering.
Anyway, it's a great show of ego that the points you responded mostly to were sillly, superficial comments about the nature of your brainspace, and not the issues at hand. Something to ponder. It's just supporting the aggro theory unfortunately mate. Again, though, just MY opinion. And please let's not forget this is a Dub forum, and not White Power Australia?!? WTF?
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DOUBLECAB Unwanted member
915 posts · joined May 2005 ·
vwombat wrote:Political correctness is a "label" which like any other label can be used and percieved both positively or negatively.
So can anything be perceived, but then again it depends on who's definition of what is positive or negative!
Each "ISSUE" however, should be examined and debated rationally regardless of left, right or middle political tendencies.
So when are U going to start the process without the personal attacks??
There are some pretty heavy undercurrents, not really even "hidden" between the lines in your responses that are just plain "stupid" and extremely uninformed. But hey, that's just my opinion.
So you perceive "heavy undercurrents" not really "hidden"....so wtf does that proove or make one guilty of???
Perhaps you're just not terribly good at making a point?
What makes U think you are any good at making a point??
The point I was trying to make about "BLACK" countries can be read above.
It's also true of many other colours, creeds and nations (South America, Asia, Oceania).
You still can't get past the FACT that the BLACK countries have F****D it up like nobody else !
Either used, abused and left to rot by colonists and multinationals, or still worth further immoral plundering.
Yes well I read all of the above drivell (in my opinion as U would say) and it (to me) it is the same chip on the shoulder leftist/socialist white guilt ridden crap that was even spewed out by the "higher ground" marxists who's ideologies have also not produced one "successful free society" that comes close to what a democratic capitalistic system achieves for its citizens.
Anyway, it's a great show of ego that the points you responded mostly to were sillly, superficial comments about the nature of your brainspace,
Talking of "EGO"...seems to me your the one that cant have a discussion/debate without trying to elevate YOUR ego by attempts at personal denegration....instead of U sticking to the issues under discussion.....you keep trying to shoot the messenger because U dont like the message.
and not the issues at hand. Something to ponder.
It's just supporting the aggro theory unfortunately mate.
That wasn't even your theory but U once again decided to go for the personal denegration act.
Again, though, just MY opinion.
And please let's not forget this is a Dub forum,
So why did U bother to get involved ??
and not White Power Australia?!?
I dont recall anybody mentioning "White Power Australia" until U brought it up.....another red herring.
WTF?
:vader
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DOUBLECAB Unwanted member
915 posts · joined May 2005 ·
vwombat wrote:Aggro? Maybe? I just think he's regurgitating codswallop from some other ignoramus.
Some people should be made to just wear a sign saying "ignorant, yet opinionated self-righteous egotist". As an open minded person, you'd just cross to the other side of the street, or change tables at the pub to avoid their drivel. Cant avoid it on here though, and one must do what one can to stop this stuff getting passed on and propagating in the young-un's.
Let them all breed together and live underground like the morlocks! I hear Pauline Hanson is single at the moment. Might be in with a chance mate? Please no eating of us beautiful people though!nn[ Edited on 5-7-2005 by vwombat ]
DOUBLECAB Unwanted member
915 posts · joined May 2005 ·
vwombat wrote:Aggro? Maybe? I just think he's regurgitating codswallop from some other ignoramus.
Some people should be made to just wear a sign saying "ignorant, yet opinionated self-righteous egotist". As an open minded person, you'd just cross to the other side of the street, or change tables at the pub to avoid their drivel. Cant avoid it on here though, and one must do what one can to stop this stuff getting passed on and propagating in the young-un's.
Let them all breed together and live underground like the morlocks! I hear Pauline Hanson is single at the moment. Might be in with a chance mate? Please no eating of us beautiful people though!nn[ Edited on 5-7-2005 by vwombat ]
After having shown the above to a group of people for their opinion......the democratic consensus was that it was written by a "CLOSED MINDED, OPINIONATED SELF-RIGHTEOUS EGOTIST WHO BELEIVED HE HAD ALL THE ANSWERS INCLUDING THE RIGHT TO CENSOR OPINION AND WAS TOTALLY IGNORANT OF HIS IGNORANCE."
Thats what they said......and well if I gave U my personal opinion on U....then I would have to be like U and shoot the messenger.
vwombat Hey Ho - Lets GO!
1,218 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
Whatever you reckon Man! You cant really personally bait me, so don't waste your time.
BTW - The personal attacks were not actually the priority of my posts, but the issues themselves. That's why I tried to clarify that the "attacks" were superficial. You don't know me, so you cant be expected to understand this. In that regard, yes, perhaps I was poor at making my point. The attacks obviously became your focus, so it killed the debate somewhat. The people here who know me would've just taken that other stuff with a grain of salt and continued the conversation. I am somewhat eccentric after all.
This was historically usually achieved through tricks and manipulation, or they were aggressively forced to comply. In my opinion, that implies that they didn't f**k it up, but had it f*cked up for them.
To then expect these cultures to pick up the pieces without having the tools and expertise to do so is ludicrous. Without having a natural historical development to a capitalist structure, of course these countries are behind the "G8" ball.
The Western world has set the world agenda, and it is just not sustainable on a global scale. Many of these cultures engaged in self sustaining permaculture, and were successful diverse, societal models. Maybe the following will help you to better understand:
Starfleet General Order 1: The Prime Directive
As the right of each sentient species to live in accordance with its normal cultural evolution is considered sacred, no Starfleet personnel may interfere with the normal and healthy development of alien life and culture. Such interference includes introducing superior knowledge, strength, or technology to a world whose society is incapable of handling such advantages wisely. Starfleet personnel may not violate this Prime Directive, even to save their lives and/or their ship, unless they are acting to right an earlier violation or an accidental contamination of said culture. This directive takes precedence over any and all other considerations, and carries with it the highest moral obligation.
Colonialists not only stomped all over these moral concepts, but murdered and stole for self gain.
Now, if that doesn't help, nothing will. Thanks Mr Rodenberry!
BTW - The personal attacks were not actually the priority of my posts, but the issues themselves. That's why I tried to clarify that the "attacks" were superficial. You don't know me, so you cant be expected to understand this. In that regard, yes, perhaps I was poor at making my point. The attacks obviously became your focus, so it killed the debate somewhat. The people here who know me would've just taken that other stuff with a grain of salt and continued the conversation. I am somewhat eccentric after all.
No, I cant get over the fact that many indigenous cultures have had the foundation of their societal beliefs and social structures completely destroyed, and replaced with a self serving capitalist colonialist monoculture.You still can't get past the FACT that the BLACK countries have F****D it up like nobody else !
This was historically usually achieved through tricks and manipulation, or they were aggressively forced to comply. In my opinion, that implies that they didn't f**k it up, but had it f*cked up for them.
To then expect these cultures to pick up the pieces without having the tools and expertise to do so is ludicrous. Without having a natural historical development to a capitalist structure, of course these countries are behind the "G8" ball.
The Western world has set the world agenda, and it is just not sustainable on a global scale. Many of these cultures engaged in self sustaining permaculture, and were successful diverse, societal models. Maybe the following will help you to better understand:
Starfleet General Order 1: The Prime Directive
As the right of each sentient species to live in accordance with its normal cultural evolution is considered sacred, no Starfleet personnel may interfere with the normal and healthy development of alien life and culture. Such interference includes introducing superior knowledge, strength, or technology to a world whose society is incapable of handling such advantages wisely. Starfleet personnel may not violate this Prime Directive, even to save their lives and/or their ship, unless they are acting to right an earlier violation or an accidental contamination of said culture. This directive takes precedence over any and all other considerations, and carries with it the highest moral obligation.
Colonialists not only stomped all over these moral concepts, but murdered and stole for self gain.
Now, if that doesn't help, nothing will. Thanks Mr Rodenberry!
0 posts · joined Feb 2004 ·
:duhDOUBLECAB wrote:After having shown the above to a group of people for their opinion......the democratic consensus was that it was written by a "CLOSED MINDED, OPINIONATED SELF-RIGHTEOUS EGOTIST WHO BELEIVED HE HAD ALL THE ANSWERS INCLUDING THE RIGHT TO CENSOR OPINION AND WAS TOTALLY IGNORANT OF HIS IGNORANCE."
Thats what they said......and well if I gave U my personal opinion on U....then I would have to be like U and shoot the messenger.
*tumbleweed blows by as a gust of hot desert wind blasts thru the trailer park*
anyway................
far out the morlocks gave me nightmares as a kid...... still do....... now i am thinking about world poverty AND morlocks.......... all because of this concert....... 😉
DOUBLECAB Unwanted member
915 posts · joined May 2005 ·
Now I will show my ignorance....wtf is Mr Rodenberry??vwombat wrote:Whatever you reckon Man! You cant really personally bait me, so don't waste your time.
What is obvious is that U cut the cloth to suit yourself and change tack or ignore what is placed infront of U as suits U or bring on red herrings to go off on another tangent and when U are confronted with this U dont want to aknowledge all of the above...eg U claim U are open minded yet U dont want the young ones as U put it being exposed to any other opinions bar yours.....close the door light the light we are staying home tonite...to bad nobody is home
BTW - The personal attacks were not actually the priority of my posts, SO why make them in the first place unless as I state again....If U dont like the msg Shoot the messenger!
but the issues themselves. That's why I tried to clarify that the "attacks" were superficial. You don't know me, so you cant be expected to understand this.
No I dont know U and I didnt attack U personally..I only questioned and attacked your opinions/arguments but U took it upon yourself to "profile" me without knowing me and go into the personal attacks instead of sticking to attacking my opinions/arguments
In that regard, yes, perhaps I was poor at making my point. The attacks obviously became your focus, so it killed the debate somewhat. The people here who know me would've just taken that other stuff with a grain of salt and continued the conversation.
I am somewhat eccentric after all.
So is that supposed to give U Leeway and make U a sacred cow??
No, I cant get over the fact that many indigenous cultures have had the foundation of their societal beliefs and social structures completely destroyed, and replaced with a self serving capitalist colonialist monoculture.You still can't get past the FACT that the BLACK countries have F****D it up like nobody else !
This was historically usually achieved through tricks and manipulation, or they were aggressively forced to comply. In my opinion, that implies that they didn't f**k it up, but had it f*cked up for them.
To then expect these cultures to pick up the pieces without having the tools and expertise to do so is ludicrous. Without having a natural historical development to a capitalist structure, of course these countries are behind the "G8" ball.
The Western world has set the world agenda, and it is just not sustainable on a global scale. Many of these cultures engaged in self sustaining permaculture, and were successful diverse, societal models. Maybe the following will help you to better understand:
Starfleet General Order 1: The Prime Directive
As the right of each sentient species to live in accordance with its normal cultural evolution is considered sacred, no Starfleet personnel may interfere with the normal and healthy development of alien life and culture. Such interference includes introducing superior knowledge, strength, or technology to a world whose society is incapable of handling such advantages wisely. Starfleet personnel may not violate this Prime Directive, even to save their lives and/or their ship, unless they are acting to right an earlier violation or an accidental contamination of said culture. This directive takes precedence over any and all other considerations, and carries with it the highest moral obligation.
Colonialists not only stomped all over these moral concepts, but murdered and stole for self gain.
Ahhhh science fiction.....maybe we do have a common interest .......but not neccessarily a common aggreeance...
.....So lets venture down that path for a para sec.....but lets not forget it is science FICTION and we live in the real and now and unless U are the timelord Dr Who ...who could alter the course of history but is also bound by his code of CAN but no will do.
In our world and its history of SOCIAL evolution our changes (note I have not said PROGRESS) have always been one of hostility,disposition, dispossession and basically altered states of social, political and enviromental conditions with Loosers and fall out occuring during these transitions.
That appears to be the way of mankind and as Russell Morris sang in "Rachel's Coming Home" along the lines of NO MAN BLACK OR WHITE CAN CHANGE IT.....hey we are all only in transit..
Now, if that doesn't help, nothing will. Thanks Mr Rodenberry!
PS> personally I prefer Hubbard & Heinlein as they have more soul & depth than Startrek (and less bullshit).....as for the pics U cant go past Bladerunner or Blakes 7 and if U want to talk eco systems and enviro/social/religious integration...there is always Dune.
But hey as U would put your recent disclaimer..thats only my opinion.
:vader