Is it worth getting one of those chrome ones (with either the mesh or the louvres on the side) to replace my oil-bath to help breathing? I'm installing semi-merged extractors on the weekend, so I thought it would be more beneficial to have good flow from both sides of the engine...
...and Robert's ya father's brother...
i replaced my oil bath on my 1600 with a ram flo air cleaner purely because the oil bath drove me crazy leaking oil everywhere on angles offroad etc.
i have exctractors and low back pressure twin cannons and it made no difference to performance but the engine looks cleaner and theres more room under the rear baja scoop
nick
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
oval TOFU wrote:Is it worth getting one of those chrome ones (with either the mesh or the louvres on the side) to replace my oil-bath to help breathing? I'm installing semi-merged extractors on the weekend, so I thought it would be more beneficial to have good flow from both sides of the engine...
they are absolute crap and if you oil them properly they clog very badly. I had one get so clogged after a khanacross it made the engine cut out at normal driving speeds 40-60km/h. There's not enough surface area on them. The upside was it was running so rich it shot foot long flames out of the exhaust on trailing throttle! :P
But seriously. Unifilter make a filter that has a foam top vulcanised to a rubber lower part. The rubber outlet in the bottom slips onto the top of ya carbie and you use a hose clamp to secure it. There's no spot for the oil vapour but they sell rocker cover breathers and you can stick one of those on the oil breather tube next to the oil cap. You just slip it off every time you refill the oil in the car. This setup is much better. I noticed a real improvement in low down torque and the oiled filter is excellent. Also, you get a cool induction noise. I think the filter was about $40. They come in a range of cool colours. :thumb
[ Edited on 30-9-2005 by pete wood ]
yeah i bought a breather for the case from car bitz for 25 bucks. redline brand. it has a rubber mount so u can just bend it out of the way to fill up with oil.
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom
i put on a ramflo air filter, not one like ure talking about. the ones ure talking about i think look good but would be would be crap operationally. u need a bit of an air plenum on the induction side and the volume of those air filters is bugger all
the ramflo one i put on had was fairly large and uses oil immersed foam for the filter. engine response was a little sharper than the oil bath. plus i got a nice bit of induction noise on throttle
ive upgraded to a weber progressive so if ure interested would be happy to sell it quite cheap. its in very good condition
pete wood wrote:But seriously. Unifilter make a filter that has a foam top vulcanised to a rubber lower part. I think the filter was about $40. They come in a range of cool colours. :thumb
Got pics or a web link mate?
i put on a ramflo air filter, not one like ure talking about. the ones ure talking about i think look good but would be would be crap operationally. u need a bit of an air plenum on the induction side and the volume of those air filters is bugger all
the ramflo one i put on had was fairly large and uses oil immersed foam for the filter. engine response was a little sharper than the oil bath. plus i got a nice bit of induction noise on throttle
ive upgraded to a weber progressive so if ure interested would be happy to sell it quite cheap. its in very good condition
Got pics too?
Cheers
...and Robert's ya father's brother...
If you put on any other filter, use an extension of about 4 inches above the carb.
The standard oil bath air filter has the extension inside.
The extension works like a ramtube and stops fuel standoff (that is like a cloud of fuel hanging over the top of the carb, at sertan revs). It could make the engine more difficult to tune and even make it use more fuel.
(If you take off your airfilter, and start the engine, and rev it up while standing at the back looking at the carb, you will see what I mean). Without the extension, most of that fuel will be lost (and it is fuel that has allready been meatered by the jets.).
Hermann
2000cc turbo type 4, dragster (325Kw)
2714cc no turbo, no gas, street bug (140Kw)
wow.. never knew that! Thanks for the advice!
...and Robert's ya father's brother...
I've been wondering the same thing, to get rid of ugly oil bath air filter and replace with nice air filter...
oval TOFU wrote:pete wood wrote:But seriously. Unifilter make a filter that has a foam top vulcanised to a rubber lower part. I think the filter was about $40. They come in a range of cool colours. :thumb
Got pics or a web link mate?
i put on a ramflo air filter, not one like ure talking about. the ones ure talking about i think look good but would be would be crap operationally. u need a bit of an air plenum on the induction side and the volume of those air filters is bugger all
the ramflo one i put on had was fairly large and uses oil immersed foam for the filter. engine response was a little sharper than the oil bath. plus i got a nice bit of induction noise on throttle
ive upgraded to a weber progressive so if ure interested would be happy to sell it quite cheap. its in very good condition
Got pics too?
Cheers
http://www.racetep.com/ramflolynx.html
I think its the either the 400 or 600 series ive got. had to make up an adaptor to attach the filter to the stock carb because the mating diameters are different.
if ure interested in taking this off my hands get in touch. the adaptor would off course be included
I think you should be careful changing air cleaners for looks alone! The air filter is the engine's No. 1 protection against dirt-entry! The standard oil-bath ones may be not as inefficient as they look. The surface area is probably large enough (for a standard engine), and any dirt that accumulates to the outside is meant to wash/fall off into the oil 'bath' at the base, so they should be SELF-CLEANING. They are alleged to be very efficient at air-cleaning, but maybe thay are a bit restrictive -- NB. so fill them with a "thin" oil, eg 10W-30 (which should not go in your engine!) when servicing/cleaning them out! And don't over-fill! If you're not racing etc. it may not matter if they are fractionally restrictive, compared to a modern unit.
Years back, I changed mine in my old fastback for cheap flat/low-profile oiled-foam ones and they needed VERY frequent cleaning. Later changed for large-area K & N's, which were good quality; but not sensible for a standard motor.
I now like the 'look' of the standard air cleaners (for a standard motor), and would not change unless forced by competition/needs. Having now two late-beetle motors both with original paper-element cleaners -- I wish they were oil-bath types!!! (It costs a lot to replace them, and a bit of "blow-by" from the breather, on one of them, ruins them!). But our current type 3 oil-bath air-cleaner is almost maintenace free ('clean' oil after 2 years).
If you change types for a fairly standard/original street motor, it's good to keep ALL the original parts so you can change back later if you want to...
Hope I haven't killed off all discussion on this topic!! These are only my views at the moment!
[ Edited on 3-10-2005 by ACE_76 ]
I'll see how my finances are going and I'll u2u ya.. 😉
...and Robert's ya father's brother...
ACE_76 wrote:I think you should be careful changing air cleaners for looks alone! The air filter is the engine's No. 1 protection against dirt-entry! The standard oil-bath ones may be not as inefficient as they look. The surface area is probably large enough (for a standard engine), and any dirt that accumulates to the outside is meant to wash/fall off into the oil 'bath' at the base, so they should be SELF-CLEANING. They are alleged to be very efficient at air-cleaning, but maybe thay are a bit restrictive -- NB. so fill them with a "thin" oil, eg 10W-30 (which should not go in your engine!) when servicing/cleaning them out! And don't over-fill! If you're not racing etc. it may not matter if they are fractionally restrictive, compared to a modern unit.
Years back, I changed mine in my old fastback for cheap flat/low-profile oiled-foam ones and they needed VERY frequent cleaning. Later changed for large-area K & N's, which were good quality; but not sensible for a standard motor.
I now like the 'look' of the standard air cleaners (for a standard motor), and would not change unless forced by competition/needs. Having now two late-beetle motors both with original paper-element cleaners -- I wish they were oil-bath types!!! (It costs a lot to replace them, and a bit of "blow-by" from the breather, on one of them, ruins them!). But our current type 3 oil-bath air-cleaner is almost maintenace free ('clean' oil after 2 years).
If you change types for a fairly standard/original street motor, it's good to keep ALL the original parts so you can change back later if you want to...
Hope I haven't killed off all discussion on this topic!! These are only my views at the moment!
[ Edited on 3-10-2005 by ACE_76 ]
That's good advice ACE - the german engineer's didn't create the oil bath filter for fun! The reson why I'd stick to stock is the maintainance-free issue too! Very easy adn inexpensive! I've encountered some fitting porblems with the extractors, so I'll be running the stock muffleer for the time being, and so, I'll be running the oil bath filter for the time being too.. thanks for the info!
...and Robert's ya father's brother...
Wow, a wealth of info ACE_76!
I guess as long as the oil bath filter is in good nick and works, why change it huh? 😉
Here's some factual info. At the dyno day earlier in the year there was a stock 1600DP. With the oil bath filter it put out 43HP at the wheels, without the filter (no air filter) it put out 52HP (from memory). You can't sneeze at that. If you don't mind a little extra maintainence a low restriction air filter will give you some extra power...
EDIT: Before someone bags me out about this, no, I don't know the condition the oil bath filter was in. It may have been full of dirt...
[ Edited on 3-10-05 by EgeWorks ]
Oh - were the figures from the dyno day ever published?! It would be good to get them recorded...
Yes EgeWorks the oil-bath type could be quite restricitve - I don't know - that difference in HP sounds enormous though! A simple way to check for some restricion is to get a tach-dwell meter and check the idle speed with and without the air-filter, whatever type it is. I suspect some are never serviced! I have found on two cars I've bought in the past that they were DRY, ie. no oil left! One of these cars was regularly "serviced" at a VW specialist (now defunct).
It's not too hard to service them yourself - I think it's described in Muir's well known book. You tip out the oil, clean the bottom only of the mesh part in kero, keeping it horizontal, wipe out the bottom, and refill to the line with a light (thin) engine oil. Beetle ones should be easy, type 3's are slightly harder. It's a messy job.
If you want more performance, or maybe a bit more efficiency, don't let me put you off the aftermarket types. They may need more maintenance than the oil-bath type and I think some could be noisier?
Mmmm nearly 10 hp's out of an air filter removal thats amazing, do the formula V boys no about this.
You people worry me
I cannot see that the oil bath could restrict the air.....
Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
i reckon that 10 is pretty possible, especially if the car was running rich tobegin with, removing any restriction is going to lean it up a fair bit
Tagedeezee Heezy
68AutoBug wrote:I cannot see that the oil bath could restrict the air.....
Lee
Try strapping one to your face and see how hard it is to suck through... the energy for constantly 'bubbling' the oil has to come from somewhere!
Pay your debts, CxxT
Do a search on Thesamba.com, some filtration techniction did some testing and it turns out the stock oil bath is much more effective than ANY paper/foam etc aftermarket filter.
The only real reason to replace it would be for off road driving.
.
My intention WAS for performance - ie: not balls out 1200 grunt, but anything tofree up breathing means lower fuel consumption AND power when I need it on occasions. I don't really care how it looks. I have no doubt that in terms of filtering, the stock oil bath would be the best option. But how would it perform in the breathing stakes? I think at low engine speeds, there wouldn't be that much of a difference from a foam/paper filter, but when you're topping out at and awesome 4000rpm or so, I've heard that it is pretty restrictive... so.. the argument continues.. oh yeh, a foam filter IS noisier than a oil bath filter for obvious reasons.. and i've tested it before - you can quite eaisily hear the induction from even a stock engine...
Can someone do that dwell/rpm test and post thier findings here?
...and Robert's ya father's brother...
Try strapping one to your face and see how hard it is to suck through... the energy for constantly 'bubbling' the oil has to come from somewhere!
Hahahaha! *wipes tears from her face*
