Dave Butler Story (for those who haven\'t heard)

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 16 Jul 2005, 7:12 am

#385421

On the 30th of Nov 2002 I crashed the tube chassis car
after less than 20 runs.
The best times I got were 9.94@147 and 6.19 @117 on
the Warwick 1/8 mile. The old car had run quicker at 9.76
but only 6.32 1/8 mile. All these times were on separate
runs so combining my best 60 footer of 1.400, Subtract that from
the 6.19 which had a 1.476, and add that to the 9.76
which had a 1/8 time of 6.403, it equals 9.47.
So any way, that never happened because the next meeting
after the Warwick 6.19, I crashed at Willowbank on the
top end of the track when the wheels spun in 4th gear.
I was in the left lane and the car turned left into the wall
and then backwards thru the traps at 134mph and then
the back hit the wall again. I walked away with some aches
and bruising but the car is still sitting under the tarp after
more than two and a half years.
Any questions or comments?nn[ Edited on 16-7-2005 by dangerous ]

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

reub VWRX is gone...

2,054 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 16 Jul 2005, 8:54 am

#385436

Have you any pics?

Reub

Craig Paton Wolfsburg Wizard

620 posts · joined Apr 2004 · 16 Jul 2005, 9:03 am

#385438

It's a shame that we never got to see the full potential of that beast! I have some great memories of watchin Dave at Willowbank over the years, esp with that twin supercharged engine!

Glad to see you back on the track Dave! Can you let us know when your racing again?

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 16 Jul 2005, 9:53 am

#385455

Unfortunately I have no track photos of the tube car,
perhaps some other members do.

To give you some idea how unsorted the car was,
on the 6.19 pass at Warwick, I was shifting at 6000rpm due to an ignition miss.
I later found the lead from the coil hanging out
....but then the car over powered the track and I crashed.
Also I never liked the De-deon rear suspension.
But that is all history now...will run another test&tune
early in August with the All Motor combo.

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

humpty Bishop of Volkswagenism

3,336 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 28 Jul 2005, 3:03 pm

#390916

Good to see you are getting back some of the enthusiasim Dave!

To all the VW drag fans out there!
The pioneers need more support guys.....Give Dave a hand when next you see him....We gotta get him (and others) back on the track....Besides...Rod needs some competition!!!

FUCH your early!

http://www.noh2o.org/

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 20 Aug 2005, 5:44 pm

#399521

Hope to have a run at the T&T at Willowbank on the 27th of August.
Not expecting too much, just more practise.

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 16 Nov 2005, 8:46 pm

#429434

Pagey emailed me some photos that I will try to post.

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 16 Nov 2005, 8:49 pm

#429437

Hmmmm.

1 attachment · Log in to view

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

humpty Bishop of Volkswagenism

3,336 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 16 Nov 2005, 11:05 pm

#429505

Oooohhh Dave....Thats beautiful!
A credit to ya mate...I do hope you find it in your get it going again....Such an impressive job!

FUCH your early!

http://www.noh2o.org/

ruckus Veteran Volks Folk

2,118 posts · joined Jun 2004 · 17 Nov 2005, 6:27 am

#429531

Jesus that's one serious looking setup!!!

10x10x Commited Dubber

68 posts · joined Nov 2005 · 17 Nov 2005, 7:42 am

#429554

looks great dave
did not know you ran the motor in tube chasis as well. .....I understand what you say about the chop top..... There appears to be a lot of weight past the back wheels. Is this why you had rear suspension problems.

Find some motivation and rebuild, with your car, rods new car, rods old car ( when someone buys) trents, and LMS , there should be some great racing.

The car was making good power , 30mph from half track, what gearbox were/are you using.

Turbo54 Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined Jul 2004 · 17 Nov 2005, 8:55 am

#429577

Are they two intercoolers on each side over the manifolds or are they just collector plenums. I am building my intercoolers (one on each side over each bank) and I was wondering about temps. Have you ever looked into the temps in each bank being different. Would it really matter if they were a few degrees out? I would like to know on a natural engine if they were the same with just airflow.
Thanks
Turbo54

C'mon kids gather round,
there's a new sensation hitting town,
It's moving straight, low to the ground,
it'll pick you up when your feeling down.

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 17 Nov 2005, 7:33 pm

#429852

The tranny was a kombi with 4.857 diff ratio
and a .82 stock ratio 4th gear.
The plenums are welded to IDA style manifolds
and had no intercooling (but needed it)
The handling woes were most likely the De-deon
rear suspension not able to roll-rotate when
using ladder bars...paralell four link would have been better.
Have a 930 trans sitting here and that is why
I didn't go for a swing axle...I was trying to keep
the tyres square, but that was all a waste of time.

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

Stanley I guess the reward is in the doing of it

4,523 posts · joined Mar 2003 · 17 Nov 2005, 7:57 pm

#429858

A thing of rare beauty....:thumb

TRENT_DEMOS Slammed & Awesome Dubber

86 posts · joined Nov 2005 · 17 Nov 2005, 10:19 pm

#429900

hi dave first time i have seen pics of your car....looks like a lot of nice fabrication work went into the engine set up .....as iox10x said must have made good power.....hope to see you race your tube car real soon....
BLOWN PAUTER im a fan......best wishes

Craig Paton Wolfsburg Wizard

620 posts · joined Apr 2004 · 18 Nov 2005, 8:15 am

#429965

Hey Dave

I've got some taped footage of both your supercharged engines and both cars somewhere. I'll have to dig it out sometime and showz ya!

And for those guys who didn't get to hear this thing run, positively the most awesome sounding VW engine I've ever heard!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Craig

[ Edited on 17-11-2005 by Craig Paton ]

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shiftyvw Wolfsburg Wizard

523 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 18 Nov 2005, 6:55 pm

#430158

when you say the de dion couldnt roll rotate, do you mean because the ladder bars would only allow the rear wheels to move up and down together? ie not tilt the axle in relation to the chassis?

Do The regular V8 ladder bar cars have this problem? or does it only become a problem with the rear weight bias?

testing 1 2 3...

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 18 Nov 2005, 7:51 pm

#430176

Yes Owen your understanding is correct. Both wheels travel
in the same arc, and at the same time.
I don't know that front engine cars have the same problem,
but they can not roll-rotate either.(with ladder bars)
The symptom was like an over laden ute full of potatoes.
Yes it probably does have a bit to do with the rear weight bias,
but also with the height of the COG too.
Another factor to ponder, is that live axle cars with ladder bars
have a reaction force that works back thru the bars from
the diff housing, where as the Volksy's is thru the tranny hsg.
On prepared tracks it was fine, but on poor tracks, the torque
would try to twist the car, and it would unload one wheel.
Next thing I would have to back off. And twice before the big
crash I actually spun the car out.(early in the run)
The crash at the end was unrelated to the suspension I believe.

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

shiftyvw Wolfsburg Wizard

523 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 18 Nov 2005, 10:18 pm

#430255

I know they place a lot of stress on the axle housing, which is why there not legal for street use.
Heres a thought, does a four link need the torque reaction through the axle housing for the anti squat/dive properties to work, or its all related to the centre of gravity and forward movement of the car? will a four link on a de deon be tunable in this respect or just allow more articulation?

testing 1 2 3...

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 19 Nov 2005, 7:28 am

#430306

The four link does, in general, use the torque reaction to
transfer weight onto the rear tyres as per ladder bar
and independant rear ends can take advantage of some
anti squat but never 100%.
The instant centre would have to be vertically above
the wheel to achieve this!
I thought about the four link purely for the "articulation"
but yes it is infinitely tunable, unlike a ladder bar.

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.