EJ22 into Bay Microbus - Finished project

helbus · 2005-04-29T11:36:29+00:00

I have received most of the stuff to do the conversion and will be starting this weekend. I will start off with something simple, I have a few other things on this weekend, so I will be mounting the radiator and shroud. The motor is a secondhand EJ22 from local '94 Subaru Liberty with 112,000 k's on the clock. I was able to get it from a wrecker for a very good price $1000 as our company bought thousands worth of panels from them each month. It came with everything including dash loom, computer, exhaust etc.nn[ Edited on 23-7-2005 by Helbus ] [ Edited on 23-10-2005 by Helbus ]

crewcabconnection Being Sid James

1,922 posts · joined Apr 2003 · 27 Feb 2006, 10:24 pm

#459641

we get about that out our 2.5 Sube motor - but it's still in the Sube.

Loves a lolcat

GeorgeL Officially Full-On Dubber

231 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 28 Feb 2006, 1:48 am

#459657

Helbus wrote:
gull wrote:how many ks you getting out of a tank of fuel & are you running stock ratios , seagull
Speedo check shows 97kmh on checking device on bridge when speedo in vehicle shows 100kmh. I would therefore assume the odometer is pretty accurate.

Not always a good assumption. The speedometer is a completely different mechinism than the odometer after the cable enters the instrument. The odometer can have considerably different calibration than the speedometer, especially if the instrument is somewhat aged. For example, my speedometer reads about 15% high while my odometer is about 2% high.

Best deal is to check it against a GPS or well-measured road markers.

George

GeorgeL Officially Full-On Dubber

231 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 28 Feb 2006, 1:50 am

#459658

crewcabconnection wrote:we get about that out our 2.5 Sube motor - but it's still in the Sube.

Considering that the stock 2.0l gearbox has a 4th gear only 10% lower than the Subaru 5th gear, I would expect only a small drop in mileage when the engine lives in the bus. The weights, at least empty, are very close too. Only the frontal area of a bus is greater.

George

c_dreike Learner Dubber

3 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 3 Mar 2006, 3:08 pm

#460668

Howdy from California,
I have a 64DD camper bus that I would like to convert. The big question: Is it possible to install an EJ22 without cutting the sheet metal on either side of the compartment where the engine seal fits? I have not seen a clear answer on any posting or web site. My engine compartment is 74cm from seal flange to seal flange.
Thanks for answers.
Chris

helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body

7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 3 Mar 2006, 3:29 pm

#460677

Our bus had a 1800 type 4 motor originally and there is no removal or cutting of any part of the bus whatsoever to fit the engine in. It could go back to original if required.

The only cutting I did was to remove the heater tube under the bus to fit the radiator and fan underneath.

EJ22 into Bay Microbus - Finished project build thread- click on this spot here for info

Baja Wes V6 Baja Pioneer

3,119 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 3 Mar 2006, 7:44 pm

#460736

I just realised I haven't posted on this thread and let you know that I think you've done a great job with Helbus. Your conversion turned out real nice and I'm sure you'll inspire some others out there.

And mine would be a great sleeper too, if it wasn't jacked up and didn't have hundreds of other mods 🙂

Wes - www.offroadvw.net - 200HP Quad Cam V6 in a VW Baja - with climate control... 🙂
www.taylorcycles.com.au - My DH MTB racing brothers shop.

c_dreike Learner Dubber

3 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 4 Mar 2006, 2:19 am

#460810

Howdy from California once again.

Do you know if the type 4 engine is wider than the type 1?

thanks!
Chris

GeorgeL Officially Full-On Dubber

231 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 4 Mar 2006, 5:54 am

#460814

c_dreike wrote:Howdy from California once again.

Do you know if the type 4 engine is wider than the type 1?

thanks!
Chris

I've had the same question. AFAIK, the ej22 will fit between the seal flanges on the front end, but the rear apron needs to be trimmed to clear the cam belt housing. The DOHC housing seems to be larger than the SOHC housing.

This info is from similar conversions done to bugs and type 3s. I'm planning to put an EJ25 into my '71 and might end up having to trim some of the engine bay metal to make it fit if the EJ25 is larger than the EJ22. I still haven't been able to get accurate numbers on the width of the EJ25 sohc engine

George (in SoCal)

GeorgeL Officially Full-On Dubber

231 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 7 Mar 2006, 6:57 am

#461577

Helbus wrote:We all live in a Yellow Submarine, Yellow Submarine, Yellow Submarine.

Questions for Peter:

In the early part of this thread you show a header tank that has two large tubes on the round end away from the filler. Later on, you show a tank mounted in your bus that has an inlet on the bottom. Did you change the tank or am I just misinterpreting the photos?

Also, you used 4m of hose to plumb the radiator. Any particular reason to do the whole thing in hose or did you just want to avoid the fun of fabbing metal lines?

George

helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body

7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 7 Mar 2006, 4:19 pm

#461713

The guy that made the header tank sort of misunderstood, so he changed the inlet to the bottom.

I did the whole lot in hose because it was easy as.

EJ22 into Bay Microbus - Finished project build thread- click on this spot here for info

GeorgeL Officially Full-On Dubber

231 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 3 Apr 2006, 6:53 am

#470943

I need to bump this one to keep my inspiration level up! 🙂

Any ongoing progress reports on this project?

George

helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body

7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 3 Apr 2006, 8:45 am

#470960

Still going well and no problems seen yet. We clicked over 3000km since conversion the other weekend when we went drag racing at Heatcote.

The bus was driven there and drag raced as is with bullbar and all seats inside. Pulled a 17.83 at 75 mph. Still starts and runs smooth as ever. Driving in 38 degree heat see's temp guage get to 100 on the highway. Will be looking at air scoop to change that. - Next hot season's job.

EJ22 into Bay Microbus - Finished project build thread- click on this spot here for info

jeremy Seriously Crusin Dubber

156 posts · joined Sep 2005 · 3 Apr 2006, 9:37 pm

#471331

Just in case you have missed the praise from others, here it is from me.

"Love ya work and a great write-up."

:thumb

GeorgeL Officially Full-On Dubber

231 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 4 Apr 2006, 7:24 am

#471444

Helbus wrote:Still going well and no problems seen yet. We clicked over 3000km since conversion the other weekend when we went drag racing at Heatcote.

The bus was driven there and drag raced as is with bullbar and all seats inside. Pulled a 17.83 at 75 mph. Still starts and runs smooth as ever. Driving in 38 degree heat see's temp guage get to 100 on the highway. Will be looking at air scoop to change that. - Next hot season's job.

Happy to hear everything is going well!

I suspect that the upflow radiator doesn't get much ram-air flow from vehicle motion. A little scoop hanging down would help that without compromising ground clearance too much.

The louvers on the housing might be a bit restrictive as well.

I'm working on a similar design, but with a downflow radiator arrangement mounted further aft and the frame members boxed in for an inlet duct.

If I were a wee bit closer I would be very interested in some of the Custom Off Road bits you used on your bus! Nice stuff, that.

George

helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body

7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 4 Apr 2006, 1:32 pm

#471535

The ram flow (higher pressure air) effect is the only one we seem to be missing. The hottest temp guage readings are at highway speeds, so that is a good reason to create a scoop.

EJ22 into Bay Microbus - Finished project build thread- click on this spot here for info

GeorgeL Officially Full-On Dubber

231 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 5 Apr 2006, 2:53 am

#471852

Helbus wrote:The ram flow (higher pressure air) effect is the only one we seem to be missing. The hottest temp guage readings are at highway speeds, so that is a good reason to create a scoop.

Absolutely! The thing may be called a "radiator", but it really functions via convection, which requires a flow of air. I'm surprised that it works as well as it does with no ducting to speak of. How much does the fan run?

George

helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body

7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 5 Apr 2006, 11:06 am

#471917

The fan comes on at just above 90 degrees, so it would be safe to assume it is on all the time on the highway. Around town it comes on briefly hovering between 85-92ish degrees on a hot day, or not all on a cooler day.

EJ22 into Bay Microbus - Finished project build thread- click on this spot here for info

GeorgeL Officially Full-On Dubber

231 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 6 Apr 2006, 5:00 am

#472312

Helbus wrote:The fan comes on at just above 90 degrees, so it would be safe to assume it is on all the time on the highway. Around town it comes on briefly hovering between 85-92ish degrees on a hot day, or not all on a cooler day.

Yeah, having the fan on all the time isn't the situation you want, Ideally, the fan should only come on when the vehicle is moving slowly, like in city traffic as it is not really made for continuous use. You also have a sitaution where a fan failure will leave you overheated on the highway.

A modern water cooled engine should come up to temperature and then stay at that temperature regardless of outside air conditions. If your temps are rising in warm conditions it means that you are exceeding the capabilities of your cooling system.

I like the design and workmanship of the Off Road radiator shroud, but I think that it would be more effective with the following changes:

1. Switch the fan to downflow
2. Move the radiator back on the frame, to just forward of the rear crossmember.
3. Box in the forward frame rails to create an air duct, with a scoop at the forward end just aft of the front axle.
4. Enlarge the louvers on the radiator mount for more airflow, and reverse them to point aft for the downflow arrangement.

With this arrangement, the air will enter the duct just aft of the front axle and pass down the frame duct, slowing down in the process. Less speed means more pressure which will force the air downward through the radiator toward the slipstream (low pressure) side.

Since your installation is already complete, my changes would be a bit difficult to impliment. I'd try a scoop first, along with increasing the louver size. Making the frame into a duct aft of the radiator might also help prevent recirculation.

Keep in mind that I haven't done this, but I do have experience in aircraft engineering which involves a lot of work in making air go places it doesn't want to go. My cooling design is starting with the largest radiator I can find (from a 7.4l Chevy pickup) because I know that I am starting at an engineering disadvantage compared to the OEM radiator designers. This is probably overkill, but since I have lots of room under the bus, I figure I might as well use it to advantage.

George

[ Edited on Jul 06, 2006 by GeorgeL ]

helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body

7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 21 Apr 2006, 7:39 pm

#478809

Makes a lot of sense.

There are no body mods to fit the cooling system at this stage, so it can be modified later.

EJ22 into Bay Microbus - Finished project build thread- click on this spot here for info

GeorgeL Officially Full-On Dubber

231 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 1 May 2006, 12:20 pm

#482693

Helbus wrote:Makes a lot of sense.

There are no body mods to fit the cooling system at this stage, so it can be modified later.

That's wise. I'm trying for the "minimal cut" installation as well on my '71.

oval TOFU Bitte, ein Bit!

2,946 posts · joined Jul 2003 · 1 May 2006, 12:25 pm

#482697

Great read and fantastic job Pete! You should be very proud...

...and Robert's ya father's brother...

Leesvw Learner Dubber

8 posts · joined Jul 2006 · 4 Jul 2006, 3:22 pm

#507822

So.. by looking at the dates of this thread.. I've noticed that the posts are a few months old and I was wondering how the conversion has stood up.. Any problems to speek of???

helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body

7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 4 Jul 2006, 11:38 pm

#508023

Goin' fine. Hit the key and starts instantly. Running fine, no probs at all so far. Just need to get a heater fitted as it is really cold.

EJ22 into Bay Microbus - Finished project build thread- click on this spot here for info

Leesvw Learner Dubber

8 posts · joined Jul 2006 · 6 Jul 2006, 9:55 am

#508417

So I'm pricing everything and trying to figure out how to do this conversion to my 63 bus. The only hangup that I have had is the radiator problem. I see how you mounted yours but I remember you saying that you were haveing problems on the highway. I also live in Los Angeles and the temp gets well over 100 degrees. What do you think about that?? Do you think I can pull it off with the same radiator configuration that you have? Did you change anything? Oh and I'm going to use the 2.5 motor. Let me know what you think..

GeorgeL Officially Full-On Dubber

231 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 6 Jul 2006, 1:30 pm

#508461

Leesvw wrote:So I'm pricing everything and trying to figure out how to do this conversion to my 63 bus. The only hangup that I have had is the radiator problem. I see how you mounted yours but I remember you saying that you were haveing problems on the highway. I also live in Los Angeles and the temp gets well over 100 degrees. What do you think about that?? Do you think I can pull it off with the same radiator configuration that you have? Did you change anything? Oh and I'm going to use the 2.5 motor. Let me know what you think..

I don't think that what he has is all that much of a problem, as the engine never overheats. The only difficulty is that the fan runs at cruise, which introduces a failure mode that isn't really desirable. I think that the airflow can be improved with some minor tweaks in the design, but if I had a running conversion and the weather was relatively cool i would probably rather drive it than fiddle with it!

I sent you a U2U.

George

helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body

7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 6 Jul 2006, 6:38 pm

#508522

You are right there George. The fan comes on at 90 degrees and on the highway the temp guage sits on 95 degrees in cool weather and 100 in hot weather. Even on a 40 degree day (100 plus in Farenheit) it doesn't boil and dump its guts. The issue is the fan running continuously. We are just spending more time driving it than me making an aluminium shroud and testing it's effectivness. I belive a revised shroud would be 90% of the solution, as a lot of vehicles run radiators underneath.

Our biggest concern in this cold weather is no heater. 😬

EJ22 into Bay Microbus - Finished project build thread- click on this spot here for info

Leesvw Learner Dubber

8 posts · joined Jul 2006 · 6 Jul 2006, 10:12 pm

#508601

I was thinking about your no heater problem last night and started looking for AC/Heat options. Hot rod air has units available and I even found some on jcwhitny. I'm sure there are some good options out there.

Leesvw Learner Dubber

8 posts · joined Jul 2006 · 6 Jul 2006, 10:22 pm

#508604

I don't think that what he has is all that much of a problem, as the engine never overheats. The only difficulty is that the fan runs at cruise, which introduces a failure mode that isn't really desirable. I think that the airflow can be improved with some minor tweaks in the design, but if I had a running conversion and the weather was relatively cool i would probably rather drive it than fiddle with it!

I can understand that. I got your u2u but it won't let me send one back because I haven't put up enough posts. I also live in canyon country :P I sent an e-mail to the address you sent let me know if you get it.

GeorgeL Officially Full-On Dubber

231 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 7 Jul 2006, 6:19 am

#508651

Leesvw wrote:I can understand that. I got your u2u but it won't let me send one back because I haven't put up enough posts. I also live in canyon country :P I sent an e-mail to the address you sent let me know if you get it.

Dang, small world! I got the email, I'll give you a ring when I get some time to talk.

George

Leesvw Learner Dubber

8 posts · joined Jul 2006 · 7 Jul 2006, 8:32 am

#508664

Helbus wrote:One more post Lee and you will have U2U 🙂

Done!!!!

Yeah small world. I can't wait to compare notes, I'm drooling all over this idea.. my wife is a little sick of it about now. If I only had the cash....

Hey hellbus.. I'm considering putting my radiator up front right behind the beam and infront of the cross support. The location will allow me to keep the heater tube with little trimming, and should allow me to fabricate a fairly large scoop for the radiator. I have a walk through so there is a lot of room above this location for air flow. Cables and crap run through there too but with the mockup that I made I have plenty of room The radiator will be able to be 26 inches wide and 12 tall.. laying horazontal of course. The front beam will help protect the radiator from anything crazy that might run into it. Air ducting would start just before the front beam and concentrate air from a long thin scoop down to a wide and deep air channel. I'm hoping this will work. A custom radiator manufacturer suggested that a minimum of 400 square inches is needed to cool without direct air flow. I'm at about 325 but I will be getting good airflow so I think it will work. Let me know what you think..