Anyone know of an ignition system with tunable advance curve?

ratty 63 Custom Title Time!

1,083 posts · joined Oct 2003 · 24 Mar 2006, 11:22 am

#467370

Hi all,

Having spent quite some time playing with my EFI system (even if it is on my Brothers car 🙁 ) it has made me realise just how much effect even the smallest change to the ignition timing can make to an engine...which got me thinking:

Does anyone know of some sort of ignition system that allows the user to adjust the advance curve, or better still - allows the user to plot the amount of ignition advance against engine revs and manifold vacuum?

I'm not concerned if it is in kit form, made from a collection of parts from all over the place, or comes in a package - I'm just interested to see if it has been done and how it works?

I'm particularly looking for something that is a stand alone system (ie: not part of an EFI system, for example), so that it can be used with Carbied cars and with EFI systems that dont control the ignition.

Anyone know of such an animal? If so, have you used it and what is your opinion?

R 🙂

40hp, 6V and ...er... slowly making improvements 😂

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!

Founding member of the Gold Coast Dub Club Inc. 🙂

Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l

12,789 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 24 Mar 2006, 11:41 am

#467378

" Get yourself a Mallory/MSD distributor. You will find they are VERY adjustable. " - aircooled.net

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=IGD0003&cartid=0323200660088023

Is this what you are after??

Futue te ipsum!!!

ratty 63 Custom Title Time!

1,083 posts · joined Oct 2003 · 24 Mar 2006, 11:53 am

#467382

Similar, but preferably tuned electronically (by laptop)....

R 🙂

40hp, 6V and ...er... slowly making improvements 😂

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!

Founding member of the Gold Coast Dub Club Inc. 🙂

modulus Veteran Volks Folk

2,009 posts · joined Jul 2003 · 24 Mar 2006, 12:32 pm

#467399

There was a Silicon Chip designed "programmable ignition timing" kit published in about 1999, and subsequently marketed in kit form by Dick Smith and Jaycar. I can't find it on their websites, but you might be able to find floor stock.

hth

Peter Hill
1975 Type 2 Double Cab
modulus.com.au

tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!

1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 · 24 Mar 2006, 1:21 pm

#467415

Yer Pete
You beat me to it.
It is mentioned in the construction notes and so-on for the TAI ignition kit. The are notes on interfacing the programmeable ignition with the TAI.
It uses a handpeice to programme the ignition curves.

Sorry, i dont know anybody who has actually used one.

L8tr
E

Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....

Jeza Officially Full-On Dubber

353 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 24 Mar 2006, 1:50 pm

#467423

This from memory is only based on revs though, and the vacuum that operates the distributor vacuum can (made to operate a micro switch). No MAP signal. So I'm not sure how much benefit it would give you.

I under stand the megasquirt lads are playing with some ignition timing stuff, I'm not sure if its stand alone or not, check out megaspark on google. edit...And "Megajolt"

There must be some stand alone igintion stuff from the likes of MSD etc?

I'm also interested in this, cause one day I'll make a start on the EFI stuff I've got, and the Haltech I have is only fuel.... plus I eventually want to fit a turbo, so boost retard is what I'd like to find, although I have seen some cunning ways to boost retard dissies.

CU
Jeremy

[ Edited on 24-3-2006 by Jeza ]

......random gibberish for today.......

shiftyvw Wolfsburg Wizard

523 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 24 Mar 2006, 2:19 pm

#467433

MSD do make laptop and handset programmable ignition units, but for the cost id imagine upgrading your ecu to one which has ignition control would be a better option.

testing 1 2 3...

tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!

1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 · 24 Mar 2006, 2:43 pm

#467442

Your right on the money Shifty.
Those MSD and other programmeable ignitions standalone systems are very pricey.

The addition of Vac advance is not really much of a performance advantage, more an economy issue really.
Its always nice to be able to improve throttle response at low throttle openings but you can happily live with out it.

In rattys case, mechanical advance only will be quite sufficient.

As far as boost retard, well thats another animal altogether. When it comes to EFI and turboing, I dont see a lot of benifit in cutting too many corners in an effort to save a few dollars here and there.
Ultimately, you need to approach that kind of clobber in the right way to begin with or just plonk on a turbo and draw thru a simple SU and be done with it.
this would be the only way to save any real money over the entire EFI setup.
For mine, Id unload the fuel only computer for a couple of hundred bucks and put that money towards something like an MT-8 Microtech or a Wolf 3-D.
I bought an EMS TI-4 (fuel and ignition ECU) along with a handpeice for my Pulsar Turbo ET for 500 bucks. This is around the money for these older, lower-end ECUs but they work perfectly. Often, they dont drastically alter as time and iterations of models go by but simply grow in their range of features!

IMHO, Youd be better off to delay your project a bit in order to collect the right bits to begin with, rather than cobble up a system out of unrelated goodies in the name of time!
You will never regret it.
L8tr
E

Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....

Jeza Officially Full-On Dubber

353 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 25 Mar 2006, 2:00 pm

#467800

Thanks Tass, not quite the news I was hoping for... but I do appreciate your down to earth informative (from experience) posts.

I'll probably see what I can achieve using what I have, just because I already have it sitting there... but then again with the rate at which this project moves I might decide on another engine option before then!?!

Cheers
Jeremy

......random gibberish for today.......

11CAB If ya got it....Baja it

4,674 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 25 Mar 2006, 3:49 pm

#467828

Hey Ross, is your EFI setup able to control the ignition system? If so, why dont you try the 1.9 DH distributor from the T3 vans, it will fit straight into the aircooled motor and has a vac advance and runs a Hall sensor.
Graham

65 Meyers Manx
68 Country Buggy (KO 367)
68 Country Buggy (KO 669)
68 Country Buggy (KO 789)
68 Country Buggy (KO 815)
68 Baja Bug
76 Baja Kombi Twincab

ratty 63 Custom Title Time!

1,083 posts · joined Oct 2003 · 28 Mar 2006, 9:59 am

#468675

11CAB wrote:Hey Ross, is your EFI setup able to control the ignition system? If so, why dont you try the 1.9 DH distributor from the T3 vans, it will fit straight into the aircooled motor and has a vac advance and runs a Hall sensor.
Graham

Thanks Graham - you have just answered my next question!

Yes, me EFI system can control the ignition - I have been using a machined down version of the Camira dissy to do this - but I am interested in being able to change the advance on carbied cars too. Having spending a bit of time playing with the advance curve on Daves Baja motor and seeing what a massive difference it makes to power and drivability (and being totally disgusted with the effect that the much worshiped 009 has on a VW motor) it makes a lot of sense to me.

I could also see it being useful for those with EFI ECU's that don't control the spark.

Thanks everyone - I will go and have a look at the units that have been mentioned so far and see what is available. If anyone else knows of anything else (or has had some experience with these units), please feel free to add something to this thread.

Thanks again

R 🙂

40hp, 6V and ...er... slowly making improvements 😂

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!

Founding member of the Gold Coast Dub Club Inc. 🙂