Help! Starter vs Spark/ignition

aintgotitmusthaveit Officially Full-On Dubber

295 posts · joined Jun 2006 · 20 Jul 2006, 5:34 pm

#513521

Hi everyone,
Over the last week I had noticed the starter was just able to turn the engine over and thought nothing of it.
Then yesterday, driving down the Fway in the 356 replica, loving the fact that I no longer drive the ex's hyundai excel, the '71 beetle engine decides to stop like I had run out of fuel. I was unable to bump it back to life even though I was travelling at 100k. Pulling to the side I tried starting with the starter and nothing. All other electrics were working (lights, horn, indicators). Its at the autoelecs now. He reckons the starter has died and is trying to source a pinion P/N 2006209162. That does not explain the lost spark which caused is to not bump start.
Any one no what to check? The elec said that when he hits the starter it starts every time. I was also experiencing ocassional dead spot but attributed this to carburation and excess pedal but now think it may be electric.

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 20 Jul 2006, 9:35 pm

#513636

Sounds electrical...
No High tension spark plug leads shorting out...
especially the coil lead... and the condenser can have an itermittant fault... I had one on a Mitsubishi years ago...
when it got hot it open circuited and didn't work...
soon as it cooled down away We went....

It could also be an open circuit between the ignition, including the wire going to the solenoid to start the engine.... could just be a faulty ignition switch...
as most of them are still the originals

I always put a relay above the starter motor, so only millivolts go thru the starter ignition switch, and all the power goes thru the relay, from the battery...
which is much better than all the power having to go to the key switch from the battery, back past the battery to the solenoid on the starter motor....
You only need a standard driving lamps type relay, You don't need the large ford type ones that use a lot of power....

My Car only went about 100 meters from home yesterday and died.... I forgot that i had MY fuel pump switched off.
I do have a telltale amber lamp on the dash, but My hand was obstructing the view of the lamp.... I usually notice it as soon as I turn the ignition on...

Lee

http://community.webshots.com/user/vw68autobug

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

aintgotitmusthaveit Officially Full-On Dubber

295 posts · joined Jun 2006 · 20 Jul 2006, 11:29 pm

#513692

THanks. Will let you know the outcome.

1500S Custom Title Time!

1,418 posts · joined Mar 2005 · 21 Jul 2006, 2:04 pm

#513851

Have you checked if the points haven't closed up? In this moist weather, if you haven't kept a check on the dizzy shaft lub. where the points rubbing block contacts it you will find that the overnight rust is a great abrasive and will close the points rather quickly. Initial problem could be dead spots at lower speeds and then nothing.

DH

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 21 Jul 2006, 7:41 pm

#513944

I believe the car starts OK now....
and the starter motor works.....

or does the starter motor work but not the engine???

When You tried to start it while still moving....
there was either NO fuel in the carburetor...
or NO spark.....

It still sounds like an electrical problem....
I love looking for them.... lol....

I read where a young girl would be driving Her beetle and it would just stop.... die....
Starter motor worked OK.... engine was dead....
The RAC man would come and check everything, move everything, look in the dizzy etc...
and the car would start and go for a few days...
same thing happened... every few days....
so, after a month of this happening, finally when the RAC man came, She said, I want the problem found and fixed....
it turned out to be the high tension lead from the coil was shorting out against the coil itself.... thru the insulation... every time it was moved... it took a few days to move back and short out again.....

I'm not saying that is Your problem though....

Lee

1 attachment · Log in to view

- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---

aintgotitmusthaveit Officially Full-On Dubber

295 posts · joined Jun 2006 · 21 Jul 2006, 8:58 pm

#513981

So...I picked it up tonight with a NEW starter
Needed to pull the nose cone off the old one to make it fit and the thing seems to be running fine (except for the fast cam idle thingy causing highrpm). That occassional dead but is there but I think is is carburation cos it happens when I plant my foot. Is that particular to Pict 30-2 carbs? I know of a mate that hs a 44 weber on his moke and he reports the same thing. He has a SU that behaves much better. I know I have carburation issues to resolve cos the idle is all over the place and I am getting shi te milage. We're talking V8 figures. THe thing blows black smoke and I am sure it's jetted rich. Anyway separate issue. I will check the high voltage lead and keep you all posted. Thanks again guys

aintgotitmusthaveit Officially Full-On Dubber

295 posts · joined Jun 2006 · 23 Jul 2006, 4:28 pm

#514484

OK its not electical. Can you believe it. I ran out of fuel. F uel gauge was reporting 1/2 empty (or full depending on your personality. So it appears coincidental that the starter happened to let go at the same time. Anyway saga continues new ost coming. Since running out of fuel the thing is running like a dog. Turns out the fast cam idle thingy is not doing its job.