Anyone done this or seen it done?
Just thinking out loud!
:o😠😎😉😀🙂:P:thumb:birthday
vwombat Hey Ho - Lets GO!
1,218 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
LPG conversion on an Aircooled
AdrianH Officially Full-On Dubber
257 posts · joined Mar 2004 ·
No
Why ?
Why ?
KruizinKombi Seriously Obsessed Cyber Dubber
3,493 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
No, but I've thought about it.... there are two methods I can think of that may work:
1) Use a standard LPG system using oil intead of hot water to heat the gas from its liquid form.
2) Use injected LPG directly into the ports. Maybe 10 years ago I read an article on a company developing a EFI dual fuel system for a six cylinder commodore where BOTH fuels were fuel-injected. The system ran two seperate fuel rails through one set of injectors, with an additional injector in the central plenum chamber to keep the engine running during change-over from one fuel to the other.
Personally, I wouldn't mind trying out LPG-only through a Haltech programmable efi system..... lotsa $$$ though!
1) Use a standard LPG system using oil intead of hot water to heat the gas from its liquid form.
2) Use injected LPG directly into the ports. Maybe 10 years ago I read an article on a company developing a EFI dual fuel system for a six cylinder commodore where BOTH fuels were fuel-injected. The system ran two seperate fuel rails through one set of injectors, with an additional injector in the central plenum chamber to keep the engine running during change-over from one fuel to the other.
Personally, I wouldn't mind trying out LPG-only through a Haltech programmable efi system..... lotsa $$$ though!
Kruizin Kol
preacherman Officially Full-On Dubber
257 posts · joined Feb 2004 ·
It is appropriate that someone with the pseudonym of preacherman says something about conversions!!!
A goiod friend of mine has a bay window kombi..he is a VW genius and very unassuming. He has been running his vdub on gas for about 4 years. The engineering is incredible and well thought out ...not bad for a guy who can hardly read and write!!!
He has had people over here stumped...ve experts.. who told him it could not be done. It can be replicated for those who are interested.
I will get a pic of the set-up when i see him next. By the way something for those that don't mind choppig their kombi's....he cut out the air intake vents on the top rear of another bay and placed them lower at the engine bay level. So he has two vents with cooling air getting to the engine bay...the original high ones and two lower ones placed on the same vertical plane.
A goiod friend of mine has a bay window kombi..he is a VW genius and very unassuming. He has been running his vdub on gas for about 4 years. The engineering is incredible and well thought out ...not bad for a guy who can hardly read and write!!!
He has had people over here stumped...ve experts.. who told him it could not be done. It can be replicated for those who are interested.
I will get a pic of the set-up when i see him next. By the way something for those that don't mind choppig their kombi's....he cut out the air intake vents on the top rear of another bay and placed them lower at the engine bay level. So he has two vents with cooling air getting to the engine bay...the original high ones and two lower ones placed on the same vertical plane.
bus356 Officially Full-On Dubber
319 posts · joined Nov 2003 ·
Wow, I wanna see thsi kombi!
matara Custom Title Time!
1,342 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
In an old Total VW mag I've got they convert a T3 square to LPG using a kit supplied in the UK. IT was about 600 pounds from memory. If you relly want it I can see if I can dig it out and scan it!
Steve
Steve
Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l
12,787 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
I did see about a year ago an old bloke driving a bay out Blacktown way that had a LPG sticker on the # plate.
Dont know if he just knocked off the plates, but there wasnt a radiator up front and it went dak dak dak, so i am guessing he is telling the truth.
I have also chatted to a bloke in Italy that has done it
Dont know if he just knocked off the plates, but there wasnt a radiator up front and it went dak dak dak, so i am guessing he is telling the truth.
I have also chatted to a bloke in Italy that has done it
Futue te ipsum!!!
vwombat Hey Ho - Lets GO!
1,218 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
Yeah, My old camper was a wonder of backyard engineering. A crazy old bastard in adelaide did lots of funky things like installing a water heating system around the engine block for a hot shower. It was dual fuel but on a Mazda 323 engine.
The thing ran on spare change. It was a ripper! I was just wondering about air cooled conversions. There must have been a few nasty accidents with these experiments tho'?
The thing ran on spare change. It was a ripper! I was just wondering about air cooled conversions. There must have been a few nasty accidents with these experiments tho'?
preacherman Officially Full-On Dubber
257 posts · joined Feb 2004 ·
Hear the preacherman...this conversion is good!
I ran into my friend who did the gas conversion today by chance at the Volkspower shop. I asked him re the gas concersion . His motor is a 1800 vdub motor that runs sweet as a nut. He had some great trial error stories and then came up with a great way to heat up the gas before it enters the combustion chamber. Very clever chap. Not one to sit on his laurels he is now in the process of putting in Air conditioning. Amazing guy....
I ran into my friend who did the gas conversion today by chance at the Volkspower shop. I asked him re the gas concersion . His motor is a 1800 vdub motor that runs sweet as a nut. He had some great trial error stories and then came up with a great way to heat up the gas before it enters the combustion chamber. Very clever chap. Not one to sit on his laurels he is now in the process of putting in Air conditioning. Amazing guy....
seagull Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
4,979 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·
that would be right I just on the edge of my seat um where is the photo I say please ! :sandrine
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
preacherman Officially Full-On Dubber
257 posts · joined Feb 2004 ·
I like the Fairy - Neil.
I did not have my camera with me today...strange that as I tend to carry ti with me lots just in case. He is coming over to my place and then pics and stories galore!!!
Wait for the next instalment
I did not have my camera with me today...strange that as I tend to carry ti with me lots just in case. He is coming over to my place and then pics and stories galore!!!
Wait for the next instalment
OvalGlen Custom Title Time!
1,361 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Yeah my original plan was to supercharge my little Beetle
Using LPG only and also using the direct injection
system.
I was put off by some who claim that it would run too hot.
Also the mob that did the Fuel inj for LPG up here at Smithfield seemed Vague about how it all worked, so
I did not trust their expertise.
Another issue was the tank, I finally figured it would need to go basically in the original position - so would need to be custom
built, and they must be inspected every 5 yrs.
From memory 1/3 of the tank is unusable, so to get the
tank size reasonable for range, it would be a real Feat,
add to this that with LPG you get 2/3 the distance on same quantity of fuel, without Great effort you could have a very low Range vehicle.
Using LPG only and also using the direct injection
system.
I was put off by some who claim that it would run too hot.
Also the mob that did the Fuel inj for LPG up here at Smithfield seemed Vague about how it all worked, so
I did not trust their expertise.
Another issue was the tank, I finally figured it would need to go basically in the original position - so would need to be custom
built, and they must be inspected every 5 yrs.
From memory 1/3 of the tank is unusable, so to get the
tank size reasonable for range, it would be a real Feat,
add to this that with LPG you get 2/3 the distance on same quantity of fuel, without Great effort you could have a very low Range vehicle.
Regards,Glenn>
vwombat Hey Ho - Lets GO!
1,218 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
I had a tank under the rear seat/bed in the Kombi. It was fine for about 250k's if I remember correctly. I loved the option of kicking over to petrol tho' if I needed to. Quite handy at times, as some backwaters don't have an LPG bowser.
I'm gonna be a happy chappy if you guys can supply some more info about these conversions. Cool arsed shite!
Any of the shops doing things like this? Or are they all big phat scaredy cats?
I'm gonna be a happy chappy if you guys can supply some more info about these conversions. Cool arsed shite!
Any of the shops doing things like this? Or are they all big phat scaredy cats?
seagull Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
4,979 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·
photos ( ?? ) please :cry
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
vwombat Hey Ho - Lets GO!
1,218 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
This one died in the arse now didn't it?
C'mon guys. Let me pick your brains. Don't make seagull suffer any longer.
All the Northern NSW hippies should be into this stuff too. Much greener burning gas than petrol after all.
C'mon guys. Let me pick your brains. Don't make seagull suffer any longer.
All the Northern NSW hippies should be into this stuff too. Much greener burning gas than petrol after all.
seagull Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber
4,979 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·
Yes it did I still look at for this post each time I log on ! :cry
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake
preacherman Officially Full-On Dubber
257 posts · joined Feb 2004 ·
Sorry guys
It was wicked of me to tantalise you with this thread then no pics etc. I have had the flu for a couple of weeks then I had to go to Sydney. I am back now and while I was away the guy with the gas kombi came over 3 times...... I will call him and get a few pics and some details.
Will post this week with full story , pics and put you guys out of your misery
Lindon
It was wicked of me to tantalise you with this thread then no pics etc. I have had the flu for a couple of weeks then I had to go to Sydney. I am back now and while I was away the guy with the gas kombi came over 3 times...... I will call him and get a few pics and some details.
Will post this week with full story , pics and put you guys out of your misery
Lindon
Unity-28 TOO LOW? NEVER
1,742 posts · joined Nov 2002 ·
THis is a great topic.....At least people are trying to run their VWs on other things than petrol, cause these great cars will disappear once the petrol supply starts getting real low.....
N!
N!
type2nut Officially Full-On Dubber
223 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·
Up until November 2002, I spent most of the previous 15 years living in the UK. Mostly due to the price of fuel (at nealy 90 pence / litre when I left, MANY VW bus owners were running their aircooled dubs on LPG. Don't let anyone tell you it can not be done, or it can not be done successfully. IT CAN AND IS!!!!
The most common way of heating the LPG was by using a large metal rod inserted (and fixed) in to the silencer. This had pipes at the end that heated the LPG sufficiently. Another method was that mentioned above ie. oil heated. For a reason I don't know, this was not as successful. Odd because it seems a better idea to me.
There used to be a lot of threads on exactly this topic on the following forum: http://www.justkampers.co.uk/interactive/kamperchat/index.php
I assume you can still access them.
There may also be some info here:
http://p067.ezboard.com/fclub8090chatfrm7
but a lot of these will be for the watercooled T25's.
I run my 1990 Syncro on LPG and it is the only wasy I can afford to use it!
Have fun,
Andy.
The most common way of heating the LPG was by using a large metal rod inserted (and fixed) in to the silencer. This had pipes at the end that heated the LPG sufficiently. Another method was that mentioned above ie. oil heated. For a reason I don't know, this was not as successful. Odd because it seems a better idea to me.
There used to be a lot of threads on exactly this topic on the following forum: http://www.justkampers.co.uk/interactive/kamperchat/index.php
I assume you can still access them.
There may also be some info here:
http://p067.ezboard.com/fclub8090chatfrm7
but a lot of these will be for the watercooled T25's.
I run my 1990 Syncro on LPG and it is the only wasy I can afford to use it!
Have fun,
Andy.
Kombination Casual Dubber
26 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
Coast to Coast Kombis.... i have an LPG fitted van in at the moment and it has the rod through the exhaust. The guy who did it disconnected it a while ago..anyone want to have a look and even better get it going again be my guest!!!
cheers Iain
GOLD COAST 0405537492
cheers Iain
GOLD COAST 0405537492
phantom Wolfsburg Wizard
598 posts · joined Mar 2004 ·
I can't add much to this thread however I looked into LPG when I had my 76 Kombi, this would have been back in the late 80's.
Back then, the major oil companies were running packages to set you up with an LPG conversion which you then paid back in little bits when you bought fuel. I was interested and enquired but told it wasn't possible with the VWs, however there was a way to arrange it.
Not knowing much VWish then (probably still the same), I was told I needed to have a radiator system to heat the gas. The fuel company would be interested in setting me up if I went back to them with a Kombi complete with working water / radiator system. They gave me 2 names of mechanics in Brissy who were 'approved' to perform this.
I approached them. First guy would fit a small Japanese radiator to the front of my Kombi just behind the bullbar. Interesting that he would not fit it if you didn't have a bullbar (protection from the front). He would run pipes under the car to the back. He was also experimenting at that time with a 'flat' radiator that sits longways instead of up/down, to fit over the cab of the Kombi. His price for the setup was the vicinity of $2K. Thats no LPG, just a hot water system. Argh!
Number 2 mechanic would fit a radiator to the back, sitting on the back bumper. The water had a much shorter distance to go, however he hadn't perfected the mounting system, basically if you ever wanted to open your engine lid (you know, radical ideas like checking oil), you had to drain and disconnect the radiator, removing it completely. Wouldn't that be fun? His price was about $1900, Jap radiator too.
So, being young and not flush with $$, my LPG Kombi idea bit the dust. I'd be very interested to see current pics here of it working.
Back then, the major oil companies were running packages to set you up with an LPG conversion which you then paid back in little bits when you bought fuel. I was interested and enquired but told it wasn't possible with the VWs, however there was a way to arrange it.
Not knowing much VWish then (probably still the same), I was told I needed to have a radiator system to heat the gas. The fuel company would be interested in setting me up if I went back to them with a Kombi complete with working water / radiator system. They gave me 2 names of mechanics in Brissy who were 'approved' to perform this.
I approached them. First guy would fit a small Japanese radiator to the front of my Kombi just behind the bullbar. Interesting that he would not fit it if you didn't have a bullbar (protection from the front). He would run pipes under the car to the back. He was also experimenting at that time with a 'flat' radiator that sits longways instead of up/down, to fit over the cab of the Kombi. His price for the setup was the vicinity of $2K. Thats no LPG, just a hot water system. Argh!
Number 2 mechanic would fit a radiator to the back, sitting on the back bumper. The water had a much shorter distance to go, however he hadn't perfected the mounting system, basically if you ever wanted to open your engine lid (you know, radical ideas like checking oil), you had to drain and disconnect the radiator, removing it completely. Wouldn't that be fun? His price was about $1900, Jap radiator too.
So, being young and not flush with $$, my LPG Kombi idea bit the dust. I'd be very interested to see current pics here of it working.
vwombat Hey Ho - Lets GO!
1,218 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·
Keep it real Preacherdude!
I've heard inklings about the Muffler heating technique on the German forum, but LPG isnt real big in Germany. I've also heard mention of an adaptation to the heater boxes for this purpose.
Still hangin' out to hear some more details from the Preacher tho'.
[Edited on 8-7-2004 by vwombat]
I've heard inklings about the Muffler heating technique on the German forum, but LPG isnt real big in Germany. I've also heard mention of an adaptation to the heater boxes for this purpose.
Still hangin' out to hear some more details from the Preacher tho'.
[Edited on 8-7-2004 by vwombat]
azz Officially Full-On Dubber
287 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·
Ive seen this Kombi in BrisVegas I think.preacherman wrote:...he cut out the air intake vents on the top rear of another bay and placed them lower at the engine bay level. So he has two vents with cooling air getting to the engine bay...the original high ones and two lower ones placed on the same vertical plane.
Its greeny/brown?
preacherman Officially Full-On Dubber
257 posts · joined Feb 2004 ·
Hi All
This thread was allowed to die for a while as I left WA and moved over to NSW. I am going back to WA over Christmeas for a few weeks and I will take pics and get all the details and know how on how my friend did his 1800 Kombi and runs it on LPG. BTW he also did his passat S/W which he owned from new and gets about 1000kmwith fuel and gas tanks.
Interesting thing he did with the kombi was to graft in another pair of vents..the ones that are at the top of the rear corner. He grafted another pair on either corner at engine bay level. This guy weas a thinker. He found a way of doing the LPG conversion with total reliability and economy we can only dream off.
I hope get the plans and OFFER A SET DEAL for all interested parties.....with petrol prces going the way they are it makes sense eh!!
This thread was allowed to die for a while as I left WA and moved over to NSW. I am going back to WA over Christmeas for a few weeks and I will take pics and get all the details and know how on how my friend did his 1800 Kombi and runs it on LPG. BTW he also did his passat S/W which he owned from new and gets about 1000kmwith fuel and gas tanks.
Interesting thing he did with the kombi was to graft in another pair of vents..the ones that are at the top of the rear corner. He grafted another pair on either corner at engine bay level. This guy weas a thinker. He found a way of doing the LPG conversion with total reliability and economy we can only dream off.
I hope get the plans and OFFER A SET DEAL for all interested parties.....with petrol prces going the way they are it makes sense eh!!
HotRodMatt If it\'s old or rare - cut it!
3,616 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
The secret is you don't have to heat the gas, just stop it freezing in motion.
Two LPG experts from the ACT use the oil cooler for that.
Don't forget you also need a new cam, so budget in a rebuild too.
Two LPG experts from the ACT use the oil cooler for that.
Don't forget you also need a new cam, so budget in a rebuild too.
toplessbug Fahrvergnugen
879 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=102581
this is the stf take on it
when you convert to lpg its not the gas that needs heat,itsthe convertor the device that changes the gas from a liquid to a gaseous state and if not heated it will freeze and you wont be going anywhere ,the reason its so easy in a w/c car is you simply tap into the recirculating hot water and off ouy go
Oil heating wont work as the oil takes to long to get to a temp that will prevent the convertor from freezing
this is the stf take on it
when you convert to lpg its not the gas that needs heat,itsthe convertor the device that changes the gas from a liquid to a gaseous state and if not heated it will freeze and you wont be going anywhere ,the reason its so easy in a w/c car is you simply tap into the recirculating hot water and off ouy go
Oil heating wont work as the oil takes to long to get to a temp that will prevent the convertor from freezing
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
malcolm Insano Dub Head
812 posts · joined Nov 2004 ·
what about lpg liquid injection that they are using on late model cars .gas goes into the combustion chamber as liquid and expands 1400 times in the cylinder better combustion more efficient.
vwpete Commited Dubber
61 posts · joined Jun 2005 ·
Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·
WOW over 2 years to post some photo's :jesus
Maybe he is preaching somewhere?
Maybe he is preaching somewhere?
kombidaze Slammed & Awesome Dubber
83 posts · joined Aug 2003 ·
an interesting site http://wps.com/LPG/index.html#INDEX
quote from site
LPG experts will tell you two things you will need to make it all work -- a good ignition system and a good cooling system. And they're absolutely right. LPG requires a good hot spark, and an ignition marginally OK for gasoline will run terribly on LPG. I had a classic textbook example of this happen to me; read about it in the PROBLEMS section.
An electronic ignition is probably a must. My car had old-fashioned points and spark coil, to which I added an Autotronics Multiple Spark Discharge ignition, which cost me $89 in 1986. It works flawlessly, simple to install, and a set of points now lasts 50,000 miles.
You need a good cooling system, not because the engine runs any hotter, but because the LPG regulator/converter uses engine coolant to provide the heat to convert the liquid LPG to a gas. (Even ``cold'' water works -- it just has to keep it above freezing.)
An LPG conversion does not require any special modifications to the engine. Since LPG has fewer BTU's per pound than gasoline, and the engine is designed to take in a fixed volume of fuel/air mixture, you'll get about 10% less horsepower for a given engine, at full-throttle. To help compensate, LPG has an octane equivalent of about 110 -- meaning you can advance the ignition timing a lot. The actual loss depends on the specific engine, but it will probably not be noticeable.
quote from site
LPG experts will tell you two things you will need to make it all work -- a good ignition system and a good cooling system. And they're absolutely right. LPG requires a good hot spark, and an ignition marginally OK for gasoline will run terribly on LPG. I had a classic textbook example of this happen to me; read about it in the PROBLEMS section.
An electronic ignition is probably a must. My car had old-fashioned points and spark coil, to which I added an Autotronics Multiple Spark Discharge ignition, which cost me $89 in 1986. It works flawlessly, simple to install, and a set of points now lasts 50,000 miles.
You need a good cooling system, not because the engine runs any hotter, but because the LPG regulator/converter uses engine coolant to provide the heat to convert the liquid LPG to a gas. (Even ``cold'' water works -- it just has to keep it above freezing.)
An LPG conversion does not require any special modifications to the engine. Since LPG has fewer BTU's per pound than gasoline, and the engine is designed to take in a fixed volume of fuel/air mixture, you'll get about 10% less horsepower for a given engine, at full-throttle. To help compensate, LPG has an octane equivalent of about 110 -- meaning you can advance the ignition timing a lot. The actual loss depends on the specific engine, but it will probably not be noticeable.