I have been looking into the idea of fitting a factory Type 3 d-jetronic EFI system to my girlfriends squareback.
I have collected most of the bits I need now, however the other day I was told that there are some internal engine differences on the EFI model engines which make the #3 cylinder run slightly retarded - possibly through the cam?. Can anyone confirm this for me - or otherwise?
I know some of the early bugs had retarded the #3 cylinder through the distributer, but this is the first I have heard of differences in the type 3 EFI/Carby donk internals.
Any help/suggestions would be appreciated.:thumb
Thanks
Col
[ Edited on 17-8-2006 by Kombicol ]
I think your crazy, but if your set on this you should get yourself a Bentley's service manual. If #3 cylinder was retarded it would have been done via the distributor. #4 head is different as it has head temperature sensor.
ps remember this efi system is 30+ years old, it may have been alright in its time but those 30+ years will not have been kind to the electrical/electronic components or parts availability
[ Edited on 17-8-2006 by mackaymanx ]
Quote of the week
"Do I wish to send them to you again, nope, no interest can't be bothered really, to much hassle for little or no return."
[IMG]https://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate2-18600.png[/IMG]Hi
Parts of the system would make an ideal setup using an after market computer, they had lots of issues in the old days and many cars were converted to carbs for this reason.
Lots of after market heads still have the boss in them for the temp sensor.
Steve
Almost all problems with EFI engines are with the electrical connectors. Mostly they were discarded because most VW mechanics didn't know which way was up on EFI-stuff.
Look on the STF and you will see that VW had the basis of a really good EFI system.
Like Steve said, the parts would make an ideal set-up. You just need a modern 'brain'.
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
Try Midlife he I think has my old system plus
Hi All,
Thanks heaps for the comments, keep em coming.
Yeah, I know I am crazy, that is what they said when I was putting an EJ in the back of my kombi 6 years ago too.....:P
What can I say, i love EFI!
The other option I am investigating in parallel is using an aftermarket control system such as the Delco-Kalmaker combination or Megasquirt. Kalmaker seems very attractive except for the price of the software. The wagon however is quite an original vehicle, with very low milage, so it would be nice to to do a 'factory' job of it if possible.
So no-one is aware of any engine differences other than the head temp sensor?
pretty sure the cam is different. the distributor has weird dual points.
lol... I love EFI too but without even anything as basic as idle control, this ain't. It's a 40-year-old electrically controlled carby!
There a few other wiring differences, too, in the car's main harness (ie: not just the EFI harness)
[ Edited on 18-8-2006 by VWCOOL ]
Pay your debts, CxxT
Nothing internally different as far as I am aware - the engine in my bug is an AS41 universal replacement case which was taken out of a 69 fasty with the D-Jet system on it (I still have the dizzy, manifolds and plenum / TB). So, yeah, nothing internally different.
I'd be suprised if the #3 is retarded on the type 3's of any form..... I thought that was done as a result of the type 1 oil cooler discharging hot air onto the #3 cylinder before the 'doghouse' fan shrouds came about..... all of which is a moot point as type 3's have different cooler position and tinware.
I'd encourage you to use the kalmaker setup - but if the $$ for the software are limiting, find a performance shop that owns the software and can tune your car and then burn a memcal (chip) for the computer. You wont be able to tune it or fiddle with the settings yourself, but you have the benefit of it having been dyno tuned by an expert and the system will be properly set up for your engine and installation. In theory, it would be just like having a factory EFI car..... no handpiece or laptop needed.
I qas quoted about $400 or $600 to get this tuning work done over here in WA when I was looking into it a couple years ago.
Finally, there was a black square on this site a couple years ago with a D-Jet motor and aftermarket computer..... so you wouldnt be the first one to do it.
I'm planning to do the same thing on my fasty. I have never read anywhere that there is any difference between the cams in carby and FI engines. You will need the head with the boss for temperature sensor no 1, but these are commonly available.
You will need to make sure you match up the correct brain (ECU) with the rest of the system are there are differences over the years.
There are lots of cars in the US still running OG FI systems, with no more probs than carbs.
Forgive my ignorance COOL, but what is idle control?
Ain't nothin' like the wind in your hair.
I had a 70 Fasty with EFI I replaced the engine from a 69 and threw on the EFI and ran it for six years with no trouble.
[ Edited on 18-8-2006 by DallanMulley ]
PurpleT3 wrote:I have never read anywhere that there is any difference between the cams in carby and FI engines.
ShopTalkForums.
the yanks talk about this stuff all the time. intake valve opening points or something similar, not lift or duration, however if you're not using the stock ecu i doubt it will matter.
[ Edited on 18-8-2006 by bus914 ]
[ Edited on 18-8-2006 by bus914 ]
Hi
The dizzy had a another set of points in the base, these controlled the injectors. As far as the temp sensor goes if using an aftermarket ECU you could run one in the oil sump or somewhere on the exhaust.
Idle control is nice, that way you get a slightly faster idle when cold and the ECU ups the idle when you put the car in drive, use the power steering, turn on the air con etc. Most older VWs have none of these apart from the an auto trans. You could get away using a bypass valve from any early early EFI car, they work basically like an auto choke, when the motor is cold, air is bypassed around the throttle body to up the idle speed, as the unit warms up via its 12 volt power feed and being placed on hot part of the engine case the valve slowly closes when the car should idle ok on just the air bypassing around the throttle plate.
Steve
The later model type 3 EFI systems do have an auxiliary air regulator which allows additional air when cold to increase idle speed and closes as it heats up. They also have a cold start valve to add fuel and richen the mixture when cold.
Ain't nothin' like the wind in your hair.
There is no difference in the cams used between Type 3 and Type 1, let alone any difference between carb & EFI.
The #3 retard feature was achieved only using an asymetric distributor cam and can be found on certain Type 1, 2 & Type 3 engines. Contrary to popular belief, this feature had nothing to do with the position of the oil cooler in the non-doghouse Type 1 cooling systems.
VW did list early Type 3 EFI as having the retard feature, but this may have been a printing error
Also worth adding that if no3 CAM(valve) timing was different,
no1 would be also because they run on common lobes.
I would like to add also that the extra power most likely came from improved tuning,
because the manifolds whilst having longer runners(moving the power to lower RPMs),
would reduce the inlet air flow over stock dual carb runners.
Although, now that I have said that, the stock carbs' air cleaner probably cancels that air flow difference.
[ Edited on 19-8-2006 by dangerous ]
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.
I just bought a 73 Fasty with EFI but the fuel pump is shagged. Any one know where i might source one from. Also the cold start appears to be disconnected. Does this need to be connected as i live in sunny QLD.
