Ignition Suggestions

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 1 Sep 2006, 11:56 am

#528942

I have stuck with my VW electronic ignition for many years and am looking for suggestions on an upgrade.

What I want is to use crank trigger and CDI.

I have a few parameters though.

First, the car runs no alternator and so the voltage available reduces as the day progresses.

Must have a rev limiter or be able to adapt one.

Coils,triggers, and control boxes must be available with ease from local supplyers for easy replacement.

No room in the chamber for dual plugs so dont even start.

I might add that this system I use has been trouble free
and produces no noticable missing even with 42psi boost and methanol,
but cant help to think that there is some untapped power to be gained.

[ Edited on 1-9-2006 by dangerous ]

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

Craig Paton Wolfsburg Wizard

620 posts · joined Apr 2004 · 1 Sep 2006, 2:42 pm

#528981

009 and a GT40....................!!:P

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Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 1 Sep 2006, 3:28 pm

#528995

😂

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 1 Sep 2006, 6:59 pm

#529083

Preferably something constructive.

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

Craig Paton Wolfsburg Wizard

620 posts · joined Apr 2004 · 1 Sep 2006, 10:47 pm

#529179

Wouldn't you want to run a RLR,Geers alternator setup and then you'd be able to run a high output ignition of your choice..?

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dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 3 Sep 2006, 12:27 am

#529616

Tass?
Any detailed suggestions?

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

64vwmark Fahrvergnugen

930 posts · joined Dec 2004 · 3 Sep 2006, 1:35 am

#529634

Magneto?

Beach Buggy
74 L Beetle
Mk4 Golf

Grey 57 Old Grey Cruiser

2,937 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 3 Sep 2006, 9:46 am

#529675

What about compufire coil packs? Uses the dizzy to trigger induvidual coil packs. Deletes the cap and rotor set up.

Saw this on a hi HP Beetle at our past Dyno day.

http://www.compufire.com/pages/vw-products-main.html

[ Edited on 2-9-2006 by Grey 57 ]

[ Edited on 2-9-2006 by Grey 57 ]

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hellbugged 48's and straight cuts

5,080 posts · joined Apr 2003 · 3 Sep 2006, 10:52 am

#529686

both Rod Penrose and classic-vee-dub have those twin coil ignitions very cheap.

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 3 Sep 2006, 12:15 pm

#529709

Thanks for the suggestions.

Anyone used Electromotive?
Apparently it has programable curve and is a compact dual coil system with crank trigger.
Just mount and wire it, and away you go.
Not sure if it is CDI.

Sounds too good to be true?

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 3 Sep 2006, 12:29 pm

#529712

http://www.directignition.com/triggerkits/220-72401.html

and the controls:

http://www.directignition.com/products/xdi.html

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!

1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 · 3 Sep 2006, 4:28 pm

#529766

Dave
I would tend towards a wasted spark MSD CDI setup.

Thing with me is id probably be building my own stuff which puts it outside the parameters you have set.

I think an important criteria for you tho is to stick with a CDI. This is where the high energy spark couintry is and these will fire ther very foulest and wet plugs where a usual inductive setup will give up.
Secondly, spark duration is another important aspect of inductive ignitions but the biggest air gap you can fire is what the performance men are chasing. In this cae, spark duration suffers.

A CDI induced spark is usually a very short, but very high energy spark that stubbornly refuses to be "blown" out. The CDI spark is usually quite destructive to plug tips but I doublt that will bother you an awful lot!!!

CDI is not a wonderful option for road cars, especially with RF interference and so-on but with mechanical injection, in a dedicated race car, your only issue is controlling crossfiring which is mighty easy with a distributerless setup.

Something like this is what I have in mind.
Not at all cheap but there is no easy way to have a fully programmeable CDI system cheaply.
http://www.msdignition.com/ignition_26_6212.htm
or this:
http://www.msdignition.com/ignition_14_6214.htm

It would be the kind of clobber id look at for the level of racing you are swimming in!

There are quite a few other manufacturers you can look at (Crane, Accel and so-on) but MSD comes to mind first off.
Very high end clobber but its well proven.

L8tr
E

Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....

55slug Seriously Crusin Dubber

169 posts · joined Jul 2006 · 4 Sep 2006, 4:48 pm

#530339

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=345083

Noticed this on the samba, dont know if it fits the bill or not.

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 · 14 Sep 2006, 3:39 pm

#534145

Anyone know of any factory cars that run something with no distributor(crank trigger)
that I can adapt?
I like the MSD set up, but not their crank triggers.
The electromotive is nice, but don't think it is CDI.
Hmmmmmm...

westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

tassupervee That really hurts doesnt it!

1,171 posts · joined Sep 2003 · 14 Sep 2006, 6:30 pm

#534209

Dave
Get in touch with someone like EFI Industries, Motech, Woolf and so-on.
They supply generic Hall-effect CAS's which will do what you want.
The hall effect sensors hold zero volts and have a positive triggering waveform which you can the decide if you want to trigger your system from the rising edge or the falling edge of the waveform.

You only need a simple bracket to hold them to the engine case and make up a striker(timing) plate which simply attaches to the pulley.
You can even use some triggers that are magnetic proximity sensors which you can embed the magnets into the pulley itself.

If your going to run either sequentially fired 4 coils or dual wasted spark systems then you may need to have both 360 degree and synch triggers sos the ignition knows when to fire #1. Depends on the ignition system. Some will synch off a larger timer segment on the striker plate.

But evern tho this sounds like a quite a bit of a headfuck, its not really difficult to arrange when you see a simple example. Accuracy is the key to success and reduced timing scatter.

Dont forget, your most of the way there when you decide to upgrade your fuel system to EFI hehehehe!!!
Just modify you rinlet endcastings to accept some 1000cc screw down injectors, add an electric fuel pump and regulator, screw in a head temp sensor and run a wiring loom! Vrooom!

All too easy!

L8tr
E

Im not a complete idiot, quite a few parts are missing....