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Head Studs for a Turbo Donk

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humpty Bishop of Volkswagenism

3,336 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#567768
As the title suggests.... No I won't go into details on the engine spec, but what sort of head studs would the tech gurus suggest for my current engine project. Im piecing together a 2276 stroker that will be running EFI, T3/T4 Turbo, Air-Water intercooling and be capable of some good numbers for a street car... So any suggestions will be taken on board.... I have a few options here, but I have been thinking of upgrading and I don't have a problem with fitting inserts into the new ali crank case....
FUCH your early!

http://www.noh2o.org/

seagull Compulsive Aussie Vee Dubber

4,979 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·

#567778
yep I see another 7 k going down the loo

going to love wasting this on the street

still no fast air cooled in Perth :thumb
Looking for that special lady : PM me for coffee & cake

xornge666x Wolfsburg Wizard

460 posts · joined Sep 2006 ·

#567824
dont think they are quite 7k!!
an engine that needs them though would most likely be that and some!!

If you want easy hp go turbo rotary or nissan. The fun is in making the VW go...

Turbo54 Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined Jul 2004 ·

#567881
Humpty, I am running the scat extra hard 10,000psi whatever they are ones. Adam who ran 11.88 out of his 1915 used them and never had a problem.
Depends on how much boost your running

Gull – why dont you get behind some of these people building turbo motors rather than just hacking them down with your wrx shit. Have you run this combo you keep going on about? I too could of built my oval with a suby motor and I know what there ike as I drive a GT forester but it's so not the point. Its making something that was not designed for speed fast bugger the cost. Its what me and humpty and a few others want to do. A bit more encouragement and less 'cant wait to waste this on the street!'
T54
C'mon kids gather round,
there's a new sensation hitting town,
It's moving straight, low to the ground,
it'll pick you up when your feeling down.

BeetleJuice Officially Full-On Dubber

350 posts · joined Sep 2006 ·

#567897
seagull wrote:yep I see another 7 k going down the loo

going to love wasting this on the street

still no fast air cooled in Perth :thumb
There wouldn't be a flat 4 sube motor if it wasn't for the real flat 4!

Yet to see a quick bug with a sube motor anyway!
FringeDweller

BeetleJuice Officially Full-On Dubber

350 posts · joined Sep 2006 ·

#567899
Turbo54 wrote:Gull – why dont you get behind some of these people building turbo motors rather than just hacking them down with your wrx shit. Have you run this combo you keep going on about? I too could of built my oval with a suby motor and I know what there ike as I drive a GT forester but it's so not the point. Its making something that was not designed for speed fast bugger the cost. Its what me and humpty and a few others want to do. A bit more encouragement and less 'cant wait to waste this on the street!'
T54
Couldn't agree more!
FringeDweller

humpty Bishop of Volkswagenism

3,336 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#567924
Dont worry fellas.... Neil is just messing with ya'll.... He's a mate of mine and loves to stick the boot in at every opportunity!.... But never fear, he has done and continues to, help me out with my projects and supply me with beer most Sunday arvo's!.... Wether they be VW powered or Subi powered.... Yes, that is correct... I have Subi powered dubs too.... I have an EG33 powered Bus and soon to have my EJ25T powered Notch completed.... Hence the questions about the stroker.... Thats the next cab off the rank.... As soon as the Notch is done, the Ragtop gets the long awaited turbo, efi stroker.... And as T54 said.... This engine is about building "something that was not designed for speed, fast, bugger the cost..." I have wanted to do this for 20years, its not the 'smartest' thing to do, its not the most effective use of my hard earned, but 'cricky' its gonna be fun!

As for the head stud issue.... thanks for heads up (pun!) on the options.... I actually have some CB "145,000 psi 4140 chromoly" 8mm deals here, but Im unsure of the quality and indeed if the 8mm deals will provide the security.... Do you run 10mm studs Heath?.... I have looked at the 'RACEWARE' ones that Steve (SERRANOS) has on sale but he currently owes me over a K US, so it is unlikely he will be getting anymore coin out of me!
FUCH your early!

http://www.noh2o.org/

Schmoburger Baywindow Mafia Godfather and Cement-Shoe Fitter

2,185 posts · joined Oct 2005 ·

#567995
humpty wrote:I have an EG33 powered Bus
Now THAT is one Scoobaru powered bus that I'd love to own! :duh 🤪

Much and all as I dont like watercooled conversions... a 33 is just too cool! 👍 👍
1976 Kombi Trakka camper, "Buttercup"... driver.
1976 Beluxe Microbus, "Saphir"... resto.
1974 Kombi panelvan, "George"... shed.
1974 Superbug, "Schmeetle"... resto.
[img]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b366/c

humpty Bishop of Volkswagenism

3,336 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#568007
Schmoburger wrote:
humpty wrote:I have an EG33 powered Bus
Now THAT is one Scoobaru powered bus that I'd love to own! :duh 🤪

Much and all as I dont like watercooled conversions... a 33 is just too cool! 👍 👍
Why thank you.... Im quite fond of it too!.... Im planning to make the old girl look a little better this year too.... Not sure what I'll do, but it needs bigger brakes and better rubber and better suspension.... Might go all euro on its ass this year..... Just like Iv'e done on my tatty ol'skool paint,interior/Euro Tech Notch!.... Its the next big thing.... You mark my words!!!!:P
FUCH your early!

http://www.noh2o.org/

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#568011
I have used raceware 10mm. They are the best but not cheap.
If you stay 8mm definitely go for the raceware ones.

That being said...Wally's 1915 turbo alcohol drag car uses VW genuswine 8mm and has run 10.16@139 so they can work, but I could hear them leaking at warwick.

I also ran with my blower with 8 and 10mm VW head studs, but only if the tune up is perfect.
That means no detonation.

That brings me to my next point.
Boost does not govern the head studs required.
Cylinder pressue does.
Boost is in the manifold.
Detonation gives spikes in cylinder pressure.
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

Turbo54 Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined Jul 2004 ·

#568089
Humpty, 10mm Scat but had to notch the barrels a bit i think.
Sorry, didn't know he was a friend, my mate with a wrx keeps telling me the same, tell him he's dreemin.
T54
C'mon kids gather round,
there's a new sensation hitting town,
It's moving straight, low to the ground,
it'll pick you up when your feeling down.

xornge666x Wolfsburg Wizard

460 posts · joined Sep 2006 ·

#568099
I was under the impression that higher turbocharger boost raises the effective cylinder pressure.
is this wrong?
hence lower static CR for turbo etc???

OwenMM Casual Dubber

43 posts · joined Aug 2006 ·

#568108
xornge666x wrote:I was under the impression that higher turbocharger boost raises the effective cylinder pressure.
is this wrong?
hence lower static CR for turbo etc???
It does. But doubling boost does not double cylinder pressures.
I had a nice little graph in a book that showed the approximate increases in cylinder pressure VS Boost pressure, and adding say 15psi increased peak pressures by around 20%max ( I may be way out but that was the gist of it)

Detonation is a violent uncontrolled explosion (as opposed to a burn) in the engine that vastly increases the pressures. Increasing boost increases chances of detonation.

Someone better educated can explain better!!:P

humpty Bishop of Volkswagenism

3,336 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#568181
Thanks guys for the tips.... Its looking good for the RACEWARE items.... Its not the pressure that concerns me, its the overall forces in play with higher temps, more rpm, more cylinder area, more, more, more!.... It has been my experience that the more you try to make something do something its not supposed to do, the more likely something will give.... Upgrading the heads studs seems like yet another item that provides a little added security to the package as a whole.... What's another 350 bux chucked at an engine that owes me close to 6k?.... Not a whole lot.....

And Heath.... I tell Neil he's dreamin' most everytime I talk to him..... But he does live in his own little world, and he likes it that way! 😀
FUCH your early!

http://www.noh2o.org/

xornge666x Wolfsburg Wizard

460 posts · joined Sep 2006 ·

#568268
OwenMM wrote:
xornge666x wrote:I was under the impression that higher turbocharger boost raises the effective cylinder pressure.
is this wrong?
hence lower static CR for turbo etc???
It does. But doubling boost does not double cylinder pressures.
I had a nice little graph in a book that showed the approximate increases in cylinder pressure VS Boost pressure, and adding say 15psi increased peak pressures by around 20%max ( I may be way out but that was the gist of it)

Detonation is a violent uncontrolled explosion (as opposed to a burn) in the engine that vastly increases the pressures. Increasing boost increases chances of detonation.

Someone better educated can explain better!!:P

thats what I thought, so in theory higher boost can dictate the studs required, as it directly affects the cylinder pressure (increase), and also increases possibility of detonation until a perfect tune is obtained...

humpty Bishop of Volkswagenism

3,336 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#568477
Its funny the differing replies you get from a simple question.... I ask Mike Sheldon, what he used on his engines and he said the 10mm BUGPACK studs (9mm with rolled thread as per OEM) are better than the SCAT ones (10mm with cut thread), as the SCAT ones require mods to the cylinders to make them fit properly.... But he did say the Stock 10mm studs will also work fine (as Dave suggested), but did note some potential issues.

So the next question is.... If I fit the 10mm studs, should I also fit larger case savers to suit, or turn the studs straight in as per stock?
FUCH your early!

http://www.noh2o.org/

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#568547
dangerous wrote:That brings me to my next point.
Boost does not govern the head studs required.
Cylinder pressue does.
Boost is in the manifold.
Detonation gives spikes in cylinder pressure.
My point was that there are many different things that can require an engine to need a better head stud.

BMEP is the main contributer(Brake Mean Effective Pressure...cylinder pressure),
and also BORE AREA.
If these things increase then at some point a stronger stud may be required.

To say: 'at such-and such boost a better head stud is needed',
is probably a false rule of thumb.

Yes, IN GENERAL higher boost does equate to higher cylinder pressures,(but not if the engine's intake is restricted).

As an example, a 40hp engine with stock heads and 30lbs boost will make a lot less cylinder stud load
than a 2332 with comp eliminater heads, 94 bore and 30lbs boost.

Just the bore size change from 77 to 94 is a massive(49%) increase in area, and thus force against the head, for the same BMEP.


But without getting into a 10 page essay, I would say Simon, that you should get the best head stud that money can buy.
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

humpty Bishop of Volkswagenism

3,336 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#569034
Cheers Dave.... I have ordered the 10mm BUGPACK jobbies.... So I guess Im not gonna need those 8mm CB deals.... Might just chuck'em in the cupboard!... You never know.... I might use them someday....
FUCH your early!

http://www.noh2o.org/