I was going to do this privately but I believe anyone with an interest should be able to read it.
As most would know, there has been a wholesale deleting of threads over the past week. One of these one of mine.
A minor annoyance is that I didn't get a u2u explaining why until I asked where it was.
I did get a u2u from Dasdubber & I appreciate that.
HOWEVER, the man left to explain the deed WAS NOT the man who did the deed.
Maybe it's just my values, but I would have thought, as one of the original members of this forum, that I was entitled to a little more respect than to get it "2nd hand". In fact I don't think it's too much for any member expect.
The reason for the removal was sort of danced around & given that the forum should be kept all "fairy floss & bunny rabbits". (my words, not theirs).
In reply to that I give you this:
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n. pl. fo·rums also fo·ra (fôr'ə, fōr'ə)
1.
1. The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
2. A public meeting place for open discussion.
3. A medium for open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper, a radio or television program, or a website.
2. A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
3. A court of law; a tribunal.
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Note the words "open discussion".
The reason the thread was deleted was because I questioned the decision of one moderator & the suitability of another. To try & convince me of anything else is an outright insult to my intelligence.
I also received a broadside from another source saying it was easy to criticise the the mods but not put your hand up to be one.
I cannot & will not accept that the moderators should be untouchable simply because they are volunteers.
When you take on a position of responsibility, you must accept accountability. It doesn't work any other way.
But that should not translate in any way that I do not appreciate their time & effort.
The reasons I knocked back being a moderator years ago;
I'm self opinionated.
I never back away from a fight.
I have an incredibly low f#ckwit tolerance.
Nothings changed since & the difference between myself & most is I KNOW IT.
In the end these are not qualities you want in a supposed referee.
I was interested, in the "offending" thread, that the list of dissidents seems to be getting longer. Something I think the powers that be should note.
It would also be handy, now & then, to remember the members ARE the forum.
Cheers
Spook
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
ask not "what can the forum do for me" but what can I do for the forum!
the fact of the matter is that this forum is covered by the rule of law, so if you would not say it in a court room then you should not say it hear. the moderators do what they think is best so the the "FORUM" so that it can survive for all its users. their efforts are much apprecated here. remember when we could not access the site for a couple of days, well think about it never being there if they breach the law and are sued.
my2c
Customer service is not dead in Australia.
Always after HAZET & MATRA & VW factory tools
spook, if you have a very low f%$#wit tollerance, why do you keep coming back?
For the same reason we are all here.
Were attracted to VW's of course.
Bronze.
Rathmines, Lake Macquarie, NSW.
spook, I accept that you were hard done by in your dealings with a supplier. I accept that it makes you cranky and rightly so. I accept that you want to vent a little. I'd feel the same.
HOWEVER,
I also see that we live in a world where 2 bad words said by or against you can cost you thousands of $$$ in court.
In this case, the forum is the one who'd end up paying. So in the interests of keeping AVD in one piece I can accept the Mod's judgment in editing it.
THe other thing worth noting is this. In ANY forum, there is always an editing process. In a public forum certain people always act to keep the peace so that, in the instance of a very angry member, it can continue without an riot or similar...
Just my 2 cents. 🙂
is this the f***in clutch again?! Jeez...
[ Edited on 4-2-2007 by VWCOOL ]
Pay your debts, CxxT
if you are not satisfied with the job being done by a moderator make it known. If enough people agree then I'm sure its a very simple job to get them removed.
or just remove a member ...........
mods do a great job imho , keep up the good work
" Australians against over accessorizing vw's "
avwboy - are you old enought to have an avatar like that?
nick
[ Edited on 4-2-2007 by bond ]
members i withdrew my comments in this thread..
thanks to mods all round..
bond u got u2u!
fractal geometry; the inner most limits of mind altering abuse
Fantasy
http://seventhchronicle.com
Z = Z2 + C1/r = 1/0 = infinity
Barrels
www.barrelman.com.au
VW Workshop - aircooledgarage.com.au
allcooled.com.au
check out the vid i u2ud back!
im the second bike.....
beside the porsche........... lol LOL!!!!!!!
nick
haha typical avd - highjackin all round..
back at ya.. hehe
fractal geometry; the inner most limits of mind altering abuse
Fantasy
http://seventhchronicle.com
Z = Z2 + C1/r = 1/0 = infinity
Barrels
www.barrelman.com.au
VW Workshop - aircooledgarage.com.au
allcooled.com.au
OK, one at a time.
Dubb61:
The thread in question was not in breach of any law, it was not in breach of the rules of the forum. I'm not that stupid.
It just wasn't "very nice"
Frenzix:
So YOU think EVERYONE on the forum is a f#ckwit?
That's the only meaning I can get from that post.
Pete:
Not about a parts supplier.
But seeing as no less than 6 threads were deleted in the space of a week (4 of those in one day) I understand how one might get confused.
VWCOOL:
No. As above.
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
I think you'd make a good moderator Spook.
The two posts that started all of this were not your posts, hence you didn't received a u2u when they were suspended. Your posts (I'm not sure how many) were not about the naming of suppliers, but more around the process of free speech - correct? If we can assume that you understand why the potential libelous original posts were suspended, then we can move on.
In regards to making moderators accountable for their actions, what exactly are you after here? It is not a political office, but a volunteer role. Would you like moderators to fall on their sword everytime a judgement decision is made that doesn't satisfy some members? If that's the case, you'd have a high turnover of mods and not many people putting up their hands to be one. If it's not the case, what are your suggestions for how things should be handled in the future?
I'd like to think you are now over the venting stage, and into the solutioning phase. So what are your thoughts on how things should be handled in the future?
Spook wrote:Pete:
Not about a parts supplier.
But seeing as no less than 6 threads were deleted in the space of a week (4 of those in one day) I understand how one might get confused.
No Spook. It is about a parts supplier. You've made it about something else, but when it all boils down to it you vented coz of the parts supplier and there were consequences. Now it's time be sensible and let it go. The mods on here are not perfect, no one is. The point is, they act for the greater good of the forum and that's what they've done.
So let it go. Take it out on ya drum kit or ya gearbox, but let it go. Your just finding new ways to get and angry and it's not healthy.
bond wrote:avwboy - are you old enought to have an avatar like that?
nick
[ Edited on 4-2-2007 by bond ]
*edit . pm sent to find out if the question was serious
[ Edited on 4/2/2007 by avwboy ]
" Australians against over accessorizing vw's "
avwboy, why are you using pics of my wife for you avatar?lol
I'd make a pr!ck of a moderator & I'm about to teach you why.
Let us start with definitions;
This little box your reading now is a post.
From the top of the page to where ever it ends is a topic or thread.
I can delete my own posts, but that's it.
A moderator can delete my post, or the entire thread.
It is 6 entire topics that have gone missing this week, one of those mine, not 2 posts.
Now, the post that kicked the weeks events off, was a bona fide complaint about a members treatment dealing with a business.
He didn't name them, he didn't even put what state they were in. But as everything was done by phone, I can only guess it wasn't within walking distance of his house.
Subsequent posts added to the topic caused a problem. THAT'S WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN REMOVED. Leaving the original post, that was well inside the rules, & the non derogatory posts that were added.
I believe I just answered your last question.
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"In regards to making moderators accountable for their actions, what exactly are you after here? It is not a political office, but a volunteer role."
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And there you have it ladies & gentlemen. My point proven in two sentences, by a moderator!
I must say Squiz, I'm disappointed it was you, because in all this, your name hadn't crossed my mind.
Your basically saying mods should be able to do as they please, without question, because they're volunteers.
Irrespective of the position being voluntary, IT IS a position of power & authority.
Power without accountability is inherently dangerous & stupid.
Are you not accountable for everything else you do? I'm f#cking sure I am.
Yes, my topic was about the process of free speech. Not libelous, not slanderous, not in breach of any rule.
As it was my protestations that brought about roughly 2/3 of the alterations to the first two drafts of the rules, I reckon I might know them better than most.
But it's gone too. And the reason??
Because I dared to challenge a man with access to the delete button.
But he shouldn't have to account for that because he's a volunteer. Right??
Because it was my topic, I SHOULD have got a u2u.
To date I've got two from two different moderators, both informing me THEY didn't delete it.
NOTHING from the mod that DID delete it. Which says a lot for their character.
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
Spook wrote:Power without accountability is inherently dangerous & stupid.
**Yep,
And then you stand as a labor party candidate for the state Blue Mountains electorate.**
Ooops, just thinking out load.
BTW Spook, I love your enthusiasm and passion for this forum :thumb
VW car, VW engine ...... keepin it "real"
35MPG on 101.3kPa
I'm sorry Spook. Why are you disappointed in me and what exactly have you proven? Are you making an assumption here that it was me?
Thanks for picking apart my words. You still haven't come up with any solutions. Just another vent on another tangent.
So...put forward some solutions. I'd like to hear what sort of accountability you're looking for.
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"In regards to making moderators accountable for their actions, what exactly are you after here? It is not a political office, but a volunteer role."
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And there you have it ladies & gentlemen. My point proven in two sentences, by a moderator!
Your basically saying mods should be able to do as they please, without question, because they're volunteers.
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What part don't you understand?
I'm fully aware that the mods think that way, I'm disappointed it was you put it in writing.
No I don't think it was you, Read it properly. You hadn't even come to mind.
I have a fair idea who it was, but as I can't prove it, I'll keep it to myself.
I did put the solution there. Again, read it properly.
99% of threads that get deleted are done so because of what has been added, not the original contents of the opening post. 99% of that is off topic anyway.
So what happens? The entire topic is deleted & the original author is penalised for something that was not their doing.
Delete the questionable posts, not the thread.
But, when a thread vanishes, I can't see why it shouldn't be explained to the 7000 odd members as opposed to one.
If your not prepared to have your words scrutinised, don't write it. You've been round long enough to know better, especially dealing with me.
Of course that won't stop me talking to you Sunday. What happens here stays here.
Astro; some don't see it that way. They see it as questioning the status quo.
And they don't like it.
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
Chillax mother fuckers, its stuff like this that is causing many people to turn away from the forums. So what if a thread was deleted, or a post or whatever, in the grand scheme of things, does it really affect your life that much. Accept it, move on and know that youve made your point. It doesnt have to be agreed upon by everyone, but threads will be deleted from time to time (ive had a couple binned) its not that big a deal and its not a personal attack.
Click the Beetle
Spook wrote:Your basically saying mods should be able to do as they please, without question, because they're volunteers.
No I didn't.
I said that we are not politicians but volunteers. What I meant by that is that we do it for the love of it and for the good of the scene, and not because we are voted into office and paid to do it, and who should therefore fall under the vote in / vote out roles of a democracy. So you read into my words something that wasn't there.
So you'd like the Mods to take a bit more care when we pull a thread? Do delete some of the dribble and keep the main context? I think that is what is done, but in some instances when people quote others, it's easier to suspend the whole thread - but lets see what can be done.
Man I'm in HK at the moment, so I won't see you. Hope you have a great day.
Thanks Josh. I understand completely - I'm just giving Spook some discussion and correspondence.
I think we're done now.
Spook wrote:Now, the post that kicked the weeks events off, was a bona fide complaint about a members treatment dealing with a business.
He didn't name them, he didn't even put what state they were in. But as everything was done by phone, I can only guess it wasn't within walking distance of his house.
spook, remember that when a thread is removed - it is not deleted, it is suspended into the moderators section. That means the content can be checked where required.
In the very first sentence of the original thread that started this entire debate, the member DOES MENTION THE STATE. Trust me, I just went and had another look to check. It is from that very first line of text, plus some other snippets that I was able to work out who he was talking about when I read it the very first time.
I know this is a tangent to what you are discussing about your thread being deleted, but itis a point I felt need correcting since you base parts of your arguement on it.
Having a look back through your deleted thread, This is one of your first comments in the first post of the thread:
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A thread is started about a bad run with a parts supplier.
No names named, not even an area given. The original post & the subsequent replies (at least the ones I got to read) all within the rules of this forum.
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WRONG, an area (albeit a state) was given, and the other part of that sentence that preceded the state was enough for me to work out who the business was.
I do agree with what that member said in his follow up thread in that this is a forum for members to share their good and bad experiences - but we have to draw the line when it opens us up to litigation.
I can appreciate everyone's "rights" to free speech however when the risk of legal action enters the equation, we have to make a hard decision sometimes and put AVD longevity as the highest priority. It is a no-win situation as if we leave the thread up, we put the forum at risk, not to mention the business involved doesn't necessarily have the chance to put their side of the story forward. If we suspend the thread then the moderators incur the wrath of people such as yourself.
I understand your thread in particular did not refer to any business at all, and from what I can figure from looking back through the thread the decision to suspend it was related to the fact that this entire issue only causes ongoing conflict and detracts from the fundamental purpose of having such a forum - that is a place for people to come and enjoy themselves.
It seems that a number of people get enjoyment from this sort of conflict which I don't understand, but different strokes for different folks I guess. Basically we (as moderators) want to try and keep this a positive place to come to rather than have repetitive arguements and conflicts which potentially turn people away (new and existing members).
Alan
[ Edited on 5-2-2007 by Dasdubber ]
[ Edited on 5-2-2007 by Dasdubber ]
Is that the end now?
Heaven forbid any of you folks actually face a real challenge in life :|
spook, no i don't think everyone on here is a #$%#wit but you stated "I have an incredibly low f#ckwit tolerance." why post that if you don't think there are plenty of #$%#wit's here?
Guten nacht schweinhunds! 😘
1976 Kombi Trakka camper, "Buttercup"... driver.
1976 Beluxe Microbus, "Saphir"... resto.
1974 Kombi panelvan, "George"... shed.
1974 Superbug, "Schmeetle"... resto.
[img]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b366/cLOL 😂
frenzix wrote:spook, no i don't think everyone on here is a #$%#wit but you stated "I have an incredibly low f#ckwit tolerance." why post that if you don't think there are plenty of #$%#wit's here?
Because that is my attitude, period.
Here or anywhere else.
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
squizy wrote:Spook wrote:Your basically saying mods should be able to do as they please, without question, because they're volunteers.
No I didn't.
I said that we are not politicians but volunteers. What I meant by that is that we do it for the love of it and for the good of the scene, and not because we are voted into office and paid to do it, and who should therefore fall under the vote in / vote out roles of a democracy. So you read into my words something that wasn't there.
So you'd like the Mods to take a bit more care when we pull a thread? Do delete some of the dribble and keep the main context? I think that is what is done, but in some instances when people quote others, it's easier to suspend the whole thread - but lets see what can be done.
Man I'm in HK at the moment, so I won't see you. Hope you have a great day.
Thanks Josh. I understand completely - I'm just giving Spook some discussion and correspondence.
I think we're done now.
But that aint what you wrote brother.
If I learned nothing else from being dragged through court for years, it's be very careful how you write things down. (even more careful when they're written down for you!)
But, yes, delete posts not entire topics.
If it's got to be locked, put a post at the bottom saying why.
If the cause is the one of the usual trouble makers, name them.
Dasdubber;
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It seems that a number of people get enjoyment from this sort of conflict which I don't understand, but different strokes for different folks I guess.
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Have a look at this thread now. How many off topic posts do you see?
Silly, smartarse little comments, put there for no other purpose than to get a bite.
While I see it as a minor annoyance, I have seen this sort of stupidity escalate & get threads wiped.
But having said that, it is one of the reasons I enjoy using this forum.
Because none of these people would dare try it to my f#cking face.
Does that make sense?
[ Edited on 5-2-2007 by Spook ]
Well my friends are gone & my hair is grey, I ache in the places where I used to play.
