1700 type 4 to bigger cc?...

49 posts · joined Nov 2006 · 14 Feb 2007, 5:33 pm

#572640

I have a 1700 t4 and want to go big, stroker crank and bigger piston barrel kit plus all associated mods. Are there many differences between the 1700 and 2l case? I have a machinist mate so maching costs are not an issue, I just want to make sure I spend the time and money on the right base engine in the first place. I bought the 1700 thinking i was getting a 2l so all these mods were planned but now not sure if all such a good idea for the 1700? any info/comparisons on the engines would be much appreciated, I'm oldschool type 1 and 2 and am new to type 4's! cheers
Trev

how low can a dub go...

xornge666x Wolfsburg Wizard

460 posts · joined Sep 2006 · 15 Feb 2007, 12:30 am

#572785

check out here, loads of info on all type 4's and mods.
http://forums.aircooledtechnology.com/

I know a guy in Melbourne who is doing stroker kits for type 4's, I can pass his number on if you are interested in that.
From memory they are 2.6L.

splitbusboy Casual Dubber

49 posts · joined Nov 2006 · 15 Feb 2007, 9:41 am

#572832

I would definately be up for that guys number in Melbourne, a one stop shop for the kit would be great!! 2.6 sounds good too, should get my split panel up and moving! Thanks mate!
oh yeah, that site is full of info, thanks for putting me on to it!

[ Edited on 14-2-2007 by splitbusboy ]

how low can a dub go...

Andy Andy\'s Adventures

2,820 posts · joined Nov 2002 · 16 Feb 2007, 12:12 am

#573092

http://www.tunacan.net/t4/reference/case.htm
http://www.tunacan.net/t4/tech/heads.htm#stock
:kiss
If your going to that extent to upgrade, I can't see much difference whether you start with a 1.7, 1.8 or 2.0 motor.
The 3 versions of the motors had a number of differences, and all had their advantages. 2.0 was the largest capacity, but not neccesarily the best as they began to restrict the motor to meet tightening emision laws during the 70's.
😀

xornge666x Wolfsburg Wizard

460 posts · joined Sep 2006 · 16 Feb 2007, 6:54 am

#573113

There is a few more than 3 type 4 engine setups...
Letters are the prefix to your engine number
V 1700ccm 50kW/68HP
Z 1700ccm 50kW/68HP
EB 1700ccm 53kW/72HP
EA 1700ccm 59kW/80HP
W 1700ccm 59kW/80HP
CA 1700ccm 49kW/66HP
AT 1800ccm 55kW/75HP
EC 1800ccm 56kW/76HP
AN 1800ccm 63kW/86HP
AP 1800ccm 50kW/68HP
GB 2000ccm 74kW/100HP
CU 2000ccm 51kW/70HP
CV 2000ccm 51kW/70HP
GD 2000ccm 51kW/70HP
GE 2000ccm 51kW/70HP
CJ 2000ccm 53kW/70HP

It certainly wont matter with the amount of mods you are doing for the stroker engine.
The higher hp engines are from porsche 914's. They are good engines to start with due to the fact they have an easier life in the lighter car and less heat related issues.
I would be fitting brand new heads also...

I sent U2U with details too...

botcolon Commited Dubber

64 posts · joined Oct 2006 · 11 Aug 2007, 9:33 am

#606301

I am in the same boat. Any chance I can have a u2u with this melbourne guy?

MickH Hairy Gutted Sloth

3,389 posts · joined Sep 2003 · 11 Aug 2007, 6:55 pm

#606350

DO NOT use the 1700 magnesium case...your engine will fall to bits.Best to start with a 2L case in my opinion as they are at least newer cases.

tssnq.com.au

66deluxe Custom Title Time!

1,593 posts · joined Aug 2005 · 16 Aug 2007, 7:37 am

#607016

The 1700 case was only magnesium in the very early 411's and were only found in Europe. I have 2 1700 cases and they are both aluminium. Also the 1700 case is the best to build on as all the clearances are spot on, where as the 2 litre case although still excellent has tiny variations in measurement. Why cause the 1700's were the first cases made so the factory ensured that they were spot on.

Damo

This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.

61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
10 Subaru WRX Impreza

MickH Hairy Gutted Sloth

3,389 posts · joined Sep 2003 · 16 Aug 2007, 7:58 am

#607017

I have a 1700 magnesium case out of my early 411 and as I said above,don't use the mag cases for HP stuff!! My first choice for any HP Type 4 donk would still be the 2L case simply because they are newer than the 1700's. Any clearance issues,if any, would be resolved by the engine builder whilst machining everything....

tssnq.com.au

66deluxe Custom Title Time!

1,593 posts · joined Aug 2005 · 16 Aug 2007, 8:37 pm

#607146

Ah, so you have got an early 411 Sedan? and a mag case thats cool i still haven't seen a mag case yet. But i have seen an early 411 sedan 69, Andy on here owns a restored one it's hot, i want one. Damo.

This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.

61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
10 Subaru WRX Impreza

MickH Hairy Gutted Sloth

3,389 posts · joined Sep 2003 · 16 Aug 2007, 10:56 pm

#607173

Yes. Andy's car is VERY nice..and it has bits on it I want but he wont let me touch it😀:duh

tssnq.com.au

ratty 63 Custom Title Time!

1,083 posts · joined Oct 2003 · 22 Aug 2007, 1:15 am

#607837

Yep, my old mans '69 411 also has a magnesium case - I love the 411's ... way ahead of their time.

R 🙂

40hp, 6V and ...er... slowly making improvements 😂

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!

Founding member of the Gold Coast Dub Club Inc. 🙂

Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l

12,789 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 3 Sep 2007, 8:21 am

#609942

For a "simple" easy to build, long lasting big cubed T4 a 2.3L based on a 66mm crank is the go.
This has a 2:1 rod ratio with stock rods and all parts are cheap cheap

[ Edited on 2-9-2007 by Bizarre ]

Futue te ipsum!!!

Ricks56 Casual Dubber

24 posts · joined Sep 2005 · 3 Sep 2007, 9:23 am

#609952

The "W" code 1700 is out of the 914, and is Aluminium. Also, the dipstick is on top, it's not machined for a mech. fuel pump, and there might be another difference in the case, but I can't remember what it is. It'll be minor, though.

Rick

1970 914

Fed & Fired by MSII/EDIS/GSXR TB's/LC-1

1956 VW Beetle Looks like a dog, purrs like a kitten!

Andy Andy\'s Adventures

2,820 posts · joined Nov 2002 · 3 Sep 2007, 10:51 pm

#610103

MickH wrote:Yes. Andy's car is VERY nice..and it has bits on it I want but he wont let me touch it😀:duh

Cheers mate, but I'm still not giving you any bits!!! :P
Damo, your welcome to a look at the case when you return if you like :thumb
Ratty 63, is your old man down your way? I'd love to compare 411's if he is!! Not so sure about the "ahead of their time" bit though, I've been collecting articles of the day, the 411 coped a flogging in motoring reports when released.

So split bus boy, you still building your motor?

ratty 63 Custom Title Time!

1,083 posts · joined Oct 2003 · 7 Sep 2007, 11:24 am

#610764

Andy wrote:Ratty 63, is your old man down your way? I'd love to compare 411's if he is!! Not so sure about the "ahead of their time" bit though, I've been collecting articles of the day, the 411 coped a flogging in motoring reports when released.

Yep, lives about 5 mins from my place - I'm still trying to convince him to dig it out of the back of the garage and fire it back up - it's been in hibernation for years now. Used to be my Mums daily driver until the clutch slave cylinder began causing problems. Dad has owned it since 1971 (before I was born!) :duh

I try to get him to 'dig' it out - I'll let you know how it goes..

R 🙂
.

40hp, 6V and ...er... slowly making improvements 😂

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!

Founding member of the Gold Coast Dub Club Inc. 🙂

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 7 Sep 2007, 1:21 pm

#610771

Bizarre wrote:For a "simple" easy to build, long lasting big cubed T4 a 2.3L based on a 66mm crank is the go.
This has a 2:1 rod ratio with stock rods and all parts are cheap cheap

[ Edited on 2-9-2007 by Bizarre ]

Why the 66mm crank and not the 71mm one Baz?

Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l

12,789 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 7 Sep 2007, 1:28 pm

#610772

Craig Torrens wrote:[Why the 66mm crank and not the 71mm one Baz?

Because from "what i have been told from a fellow who has built heaps of these" it has the "sweet" 2:1 rod ratio

As per you comment in Tech stroking doesnt/ may not always work

The rod length of the 2L was based on making it fit rather than what was best for the motor design

Futue te ipsum!!!

Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l

12,789 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 7 Sep 2007, 1:33 pm

#610773

Typical rod ratios

stock VW 1600 T-1 (69mm stroke) 1.98 (5.394" rods, 2.71" stroke)
stock VW 1700 T-4 (66mm stroke) 1.92 (5.000" rods, 2.60" stroke)
stock VW 2000 T-4 (71mm stroke) 1.84 (5.157" rods, 2.79" stroke)
VW 2180, 82mm stroke, stock rods 1.67 (5.394" rods, 3.23" stroke)
VW 2180, 82mm stroke, 5.7" rods 1.76 (5.700" rods, 3.23" stroke)
VW 2180, 82mm stroke, Porche rods 1.66 (5.352" rods, 3.23" stroke)

Some interesting reading on rod ratios here

http://www.dunegoon.org/rod_ratio.html
http://www.stahlheaders.com/Lit_Rod%20Length.htm

Futue te ipsum!!!