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1961 Karmann Ghia. Advice Please

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vwkg Schnell

314 posts · joined Jan 2007 ·

#582838
Hey everyone.
Looking for a bit of advice, and this seems to be the best place to put the topic.

I have a 1961 Karmann Ghia, there are pictures of it here:
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=42564&page=10

My problem can't really be seen in the photos there.
But there pretty bad parts of the paint, faded, and one spot where some W*****!! decided to ruin the hood of my car with some sort of liquid which faded a nice blotch of paint. 😬 😬
The car wasn't even parked for more than 15mins and that happened! The nerve of some people.


There are areas that are cracked and bubbling, lots of body filler around the front windscreen and the hood area. Major cracks around there.
Possible areas of bad rust??

I was considering doing a bare metal respray of the car, getting the paint up to scratch etc.
But after speaking to a recommended panel beaters up here, I was quoted a MINIMUM of 10k, (he was assuming no panel work to be done), even more would need to be spent if there is bad damage underneath.

My question is, would it be worth risking taking the paint back and finding huge amounts of rust damage, then spending 10-15k on a respray and repair?

OR would another Karmann be a better option? Taking the second car, splicing the two together and making one from the best parts of both?

Any other advice, or ideas from anyone will be really appreciated.

Regards,
Sam

[ Edited on 3-4-2007 by Goose-au ]

[ Edited on 3-4-2007 by Goose-au ]

[ Edited on 3-4-2007 by Goose-au ]

vwkg Schnell

314 posts · joined Jan 2007 ·

#582848
Here are some pics that I took, not the best, but it's hard to really show the extent of the damage.








DubCrazy Custom Title Time!

1,295 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·

#582855
SAVE IT!!!!! i know it can seem a HUGE job and that theres no light at the end of the tunnel but there are fewer and fewer ghias around. There is a lot you can do your self to save money, like strip the car down(light,bars handles etc) then you can strip the old paint of using a stripper or sanding. Giving the panel beater a car thats already been pulled apart and had the paint taken off(cover the bare metel with a good etch to stop more rust) will save u heaps. they can then do the repairs and paint and u save more money by putting it all back together. The simple stroy is the more u do the cheaper u can make it. I offen do repaints and such where all i have to do is prime and paint or a few small repairs then they get it back and put it all back together.

steff...................
Life with out a v-dub is no life at all!!!!!

vwkg Schnell

314 posts · joined Jan 2007 ·

#582857
Thnx mate, I would have the time to do this, just need the know how really.

What exactly would I have to be looking at doing, in terms of stripping it back, and the rust.

DubCrazy Custom Title Time!

1,295 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·

#582862
pull the car down so thats all the parts are off(windows handles etc) then do a panel at a time, i prefer a paint stripper over sanding as it doesnt get the panels hot by a heap of sanding but its a heap messier. Strip the panel back to bare metal and see whats there, dents rust etc. depending on what you can do, if its rust cut the bad metal out and replace, dents beat till almost flat and a small amout of bog to get perfect, then prime and move to the next panel. If you are not looking to do the repairs yourself then u need to strip the car back to bare metal and put a good etch primer over the metal to stop anymore rust getting hold( only a short term thing as water will eat through etch) Then take to your chosen panelbeater to get the reapirs and paint done.... It all depends on what u want to do your self and how far you want to go.

where abouts are u ??

steff...........
Life with out a v-dub is no life at all!!!!!

vwkg Schnell

314 posts · joined Jan 2007 ·

#582865
Ok, I've got the time and space to do the work (the stripping anyway), it would just need to be a bit of research into technique and the like.
I can just see this becoming a very very big job in a very short space of time.


I'm in Darwin, so all my options are very much limited.

DubCrazy Custom Title Time!

1,295 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·

#582869
Any bare metal respary is a huge job, i am a spraypainter by trade and the bloke a work for a panelbeater, we just spent 3 months totaly restoring his 67 mustang,we have the workshop and the tools and it was still a big job. but its worth every second and the more u do yourself the better the feeling when its done, u can stand back and say "i did that" u knows... I know heaps of people who are not of the trade that have mucked in and done some great work and ace cars. If you dont try u will never knows hey...

steff.......................
Life with out a v-dub is no life at all!!!!!

squizy Thinking about another dub...maybe

4,082 posts · joined Dec 2002 ·

#582879
Basically what you've got there is an old resto with the bog and poor prep starting to turn bad. You could do the full resto (strip / weld) as Steff suggested, else you can cut your costs and grind out your problem areas - and colour match. However depending on how much you grind out, you may be up for a full paint job anyway. KG's were lead wiped in the seams, so it's important to make sure that the creases are as bog free and clean as possible, else you will get lifting in there areas in time. If the bickies are no problem, see if you can hunt someone out who still does the lead wiping.

Grey 57 Old Grey Cruiser

2,937 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#582880
Any full metal re-build on a hand made body of a Karman Ghia is a huge job. Way bigger than lots of others cars cause the panels dont unbolt. Lead filled joins front and back. And more than their fair share of rust traps.

Not trying to put you off mate, but dont underestimate the potential size of the job. You could easily spend 15k on body and paint. Thats why the good ones get a premium price.

What about doing a quickkie job on it with matt black paint job and fill it with rust kill to stop the rot and use and enjoy it while saving up for either a better one or having the cash to do rebuild it properly. Good news for Type 1 Karmans parts and panels are available. Not so for us Type 3 Karman guys.

What ever you decide to do its worth saving.

[ Edited on 3-4-2007 by Grey 57 ]

VWFREAK VWFREAK

2,577 posts · joined May 2004 ·

#582908
Having been there myself, go the bare metal option, atleast then you know what your getting and she'll last forever.

vwkg Schnell

314 posts · joined Jan 2007 ·

#582934
I know that I'm looking at a huge cost if I get it all done by someone else.
At the moment I'm leaning towards doing as much as I can myself.
I've never had experience with anything as major as this, only a very little bit of engine work on my old beetle.
But more than willing to learn.
So what would you recommend the best option is for taking the paint off?
Simple sanding back? other techniques?

supercharged 66 Seriously Crusin Dubber

157 posts · joined Aug 2006 ·

#583005
Bare metal, I had to strip my splitty back, big job all by hand but I would now look back at it and would have only did it this way..no heat warpage and sand getting everywhere...johnny howard helps with splitty....in pic of the week...the key element is Led Zepplin...a song called.. Achilles last stand cranked all the way up! another good song was Hendrix.... Driving South.....oh and a nice selection of cold beers handy...zsolt brisvagus...

helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body

7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·

#583016
Depending on your expectations, the cost will definitely be above 10k for bare metal respray. Bare metal means all previous mega bogged areas will have to be beaten, all rust fixed etc.

I would expect $25-30k if you are after a concourse inside and out better than original type of finish. You would expect 200-300 hours in bodywork, and similar hours in panel finish and paintwork at $50-60 per hour at a restoration workshop. Then there is reassembly on top of that.

Strip it yourself, strip the paint to metal, but remember there may be a point where you will need to ask for help. Don't be ashamed to ask any questions.
EJ22 into Bay Microbus - Finished project build thread- click on this spot here for info

vwkg Schnell

314 posts · joined Jan 2007 ·

#583226
Going to talk to a mechanic friend of ours seriously about the car tomorrow morning. He's done a lot of work on veedubs, built his own baja, so he should be able to give some idea as well.

The above mentioned option of flat black with fair amounts of rust kill seems like it might be a good way to go, at least in the short term, while we plan out what exactly we'll do with the car. Will also give us time to assess exactly how much damage there is under there.
How does it sound?

CAFFINEPUSHERMAN bandito di culo

1,609 posts · joined May 2005 ·

#585832
man be careful everytime i strip back a bad section in my ghia it leads to a grand canyon of rust i had to have the bottom six inches of my rear quarters replaced with new steel and there only appeared to be a slight crack to begin with beware the ghia!!!!!
A candy coloured clown they called the sandman tip toes through my room every night just to sprinkle stardust on my pillow go to sleep everything will be allright
1967 Type 3 square
1956 double door panel
1968 single cab kombi

PurpleT3 Fahrvergnugen

880 posts · joined Apr 2003 ·

#585846
You can almost guarantee that when you strip the paint off, you will find more rust than you can see. Early Ghias are rare and fetch good prices. At least if you put the TEM (time, effort, money) in, you half half a chance of getting at least getting back some of the money if you sell it later. Chances are another Ghia of the same vintage will have the same rust issues, unless you buy one restored, in which case it will cost heaps anyway.

I would get it bead blasted. We had our splitty bead blasted and had no problems with panel warpage. As others have said, do as much as you can yourself. If you hand it over to a panel beater they will charge you a fortune. Do the project management yourself ie find a bead blaster and take the car there yourself, then take it somewhere to have the rust repairs done, then take it to a painter etc. Do the running around and purchasing of parts, paint etc yourself. If you want, go to TAFE and learn how to do the rust repairs yourself.
Ain't nothin' like the wind in your hair.