hi,
Just Lowering the front end of my Bug over the next week, and just run into a few little questions.
Im looking at lowering the front end by welding in adjusters.
Firstly, will i need to install lowered shocks? i have read that the existing ones will bottom out if i lower the front end, which dosent make sense to me since i am not moving the rubber stops.
Second, i intend on only lowering a few inches and am a little worried about geometry and handling. Does anyone have experience with castor shims? Im wondering is a set of these are the go while ive got the beam off.
Thanks in Advance
[ Edited on 12-4-2007 by mr_xtc2 ]
yep you are right with 'bottoming out' etc... You will have less travel but if it's only a couple of inches, stock shocks will be okay
yes, fit shims
Pay your debts, CxxT
thanks mate
Done a bit of research and looking to drop in kyb gas shocks all round.
Will be getting adjusters later in the week to weld in.
How low can you go without narrowing and dropped spindles?
[ Edited on 8-4-2007 by mr_xtc2 ]
i have tried adjusters and they work fine if you do not lower the car very far,the lower you go you place extra load on the inner bushes of the trailing arm and they ware out ,i fitted dropped spindles and my car rides well even when fitted with 205/45/17 tyres,if you lower it with adjusters the ride deteriates the more you lower it making it go of line in corners if the road has any bumps,the way the front suspension was designed to operate,the trailing arms are sloping down at an angle from the beam so when you hit a bump they move up and back in an arc away from the bump,if you lower it using adjusters it decreases that angle and it requires more force to get the suspension moving resaulting in a harsh ride,try and save up for the dropped spindles and maintain your standard geometry,castor shims are only required if the car has a problem being blown about by cross winds and the steering wheel not self centering have a wheel alinment to see if the car has the correct amount of castor and if not fit them there,an increase in castor translates into an increase in steering effort,i have tryed bilstiens,konis,kyb gr2,kyb gas adjust,the gas adjusts are the best comprimise i have used,they ride well and last.
Dont go gas, or you will be in bumpsteer city. Shims are only needed if you have rake, so set your rear height to level, and you will be fine. Cut off your bump stop horns and reweld them on with a bit of upward rotation to give a bit more travel, or just leave em off completely. You can go seriously low without spindles, just add a bit more drop into the position of the adjusters before you weld them in, but just watch for rubbing on the tyres, you may have to go to a smaller tyre such as 135s or smart car tyres. All the best with it! Josh.
Click the Beetle
shocks have nothing to do with bump steer,lowering the car the way the previous post suggested does,bump steer on the drivers side will increase drasticly going this way and not to forget the the tie rods can rub on the fuel tank ,the suspension is ment to operate withinn the range controled by the bump stop,remove it and you will use the shocks as the bump stop destroying them,the legal requirment states that you must have bump stops in the standard position unless you have a engineers approval
and you can only reduce the bump stop clearence by 1/3,the use of castor shims is determined by a wheel alinment.dropped spindles have none of the drastic side effect you will experence lowering the car as recommened in the previous post which is down right dangerous and illeagal
vwo60 wrote:shocks have nothing to do with bump steer,lowering the car the way the previous post suggested does,bump steer on the drivers side will increase drasticly going this way and not to forget the the tie rods can rub on the fuel tank ,the suspension is ment to operate withinn the range controled by the bump stop,remove it and you will use the shocks as the bump stop destroying them,the legal requirment states that you must have bump stops in the standard position unless you have a engineers approval
and you can only reduce the bump stop clearence by 1/3,the use of castor shims is determined by a wheel alinment.dropped spindles have none of the drastic side effect you will experence lowering the car as recommened in the previous post which is down right dangerous and illeagal
Theory is a wonderfull thing, often proven wrong in practice. You need an engineers cert to run dropped spindles too, but all the guys at Mummys Boys Toys already know that.
[ Edited on 10-4-2007 by Hertz ]
Click the Beetle
drop spindles can be approved and there is no theory about the negitive effects that happen when you lower a trailing arm front suspension in the manner stated by hertz,harsh ride,excess bump steer,tramlining and having the tyres rub every bump you hit and not to forget that in an accident you would be found coulpable,i am not a arm chair racer and i have been modifying beetles for 30 years and what i stated was the resault extensive testing,my car is totaly legal and insured and is the resault of that experence,giving advice that would reduce the roadability of the car is dangerious and hertz's statment about the gas shocks causing bumpsteer is incorrect,it would be the fact the car's suspension is operating outside it's disigned paramiters caused by the lower of the vehicle using the recommendations from hertz,all the guy's from mummy's boy's toy's know that they don't want to kill or injure themself or anybody else
Now can we PLEASE stay on topic.You've both had your say.Lets keep it posetive and move on.Thanks.
tssnq.com.au
Having done both methods, I can recommend starting with drop spindles, and if you wish to go lower then adding adjusters. The ride with drop spindles is a lot better than lowering with only adjusters.
All methods of lowering the front require an engineers report in theory, including adjusters, turning the centre, or drop spindles.
Some shocks have a bump stop built in, and is sufficient to pass an engineers test if the factory stops have been removed.
If you plan on running it super low, you are best to narrow it a few inches, especially with spindles, as they push the offset out 10mm or so a side...
Good luck!!
Well have Just finished the lowerign work yesterday. Had the beam cut, rotated and re-welded. painting it today. Should be fitted to the car tonight.
Decided to go for not too big a drop, and gone for 2 1/2 inches.
Drop spindles later if i get the urge to go lower!
Have also replaced a few tie rod ends aswell before it goes back in.
As for teh caster, have lowered the back about 1 1/2" so i dont htink ill bother as it aint too much rake.
Thanks for the opinions!
Getting shocks in the next few weeks, will be putting the old stockers in for a while.
Josh
Well after installing the front end. its sitting just a few mm off the bump stops, so looks like it has been dropped about 4-5". Cant work out where ive gone wrong, as i have only rotated the centres 11mm whcich should equate to 2.5" at the wheel if the maths is correct. Dont think ive stuffed putting it back together.
thats the issue doing it that way! If you are cutting it, just put adjusters into it instead of the beam centre and you will have some adjustment..... not set in one spot. Get some sway a way style adjusters, re cut it, and install them.......
yeah thats looking like the option at the moment.
11mm on a 25mm radius(50mm tubes)=
around 66mm at a 150mm arm(it may be around this length).
But there are two arms!
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.
Adjusters with the centre of the slot welded to the standard bolt position will give a 2.5 to 3 inch drop, if you rotate them forward 11mm that will prob equal a 5 inch or so drop at lowest adjustment. Personally id just lop of the bumpstops front and rear, notch the rear plates and dump it. You will end up wanting to in a few weeks anyway. You will be surprised how good a slammed bug can ride if done right, especially if you do a real narrow beam. The narrower you go, the better they drive.
Click the Beetle
dangerous wrote:11mm on a 25mm radius(50mm tubes)=
around 66mm at a 150mm arm(it may be around this length).
But there are two arms!
yeah thats what i calculated!
So you reckon a rotation of 5mm may have been the go?
On hind site yes,
but something still aint right with MY thought process...
Perhaps the trailing arm IS longer than that?
Leave it with me...
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.
