Ride Height

44 posts · joined Jan 2006 · 10 Apr 2007, 12:37 pm

#584051

What sought of ride height would be optimal for performace handling in a torsion front, swing axle car, with 195/55/15 on all corners,
also whats the best way to go about getting it lower, drop spindles? or just adjusters, and adjustable springplates or not?

Ps. Bilstiens on 4 corners (if that makes a difference)

fullnoise Fahrvergnugen

964 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 10 Apr 2007, 5:55 pm

#584126

I think drop spindles are the best.

They keep the suspension arms at the standard angle where they work much better there than the horizontal angle they end up on if adjusters are used.

Keep the beam standard. The soft spring rate allows the weight to transfer to the front achieving good turn-in and reducing understeer.

I prefer welded drop spindles from CBB (if they still make them) or Rod Penrose had some. I tried CB Performance cast ones but the were too flexible at the steering arm.

Ideally drop the rear so the car is level. But don't go too low. You probably wouldn't want any more than 3 degrees neg on the rear wheels.

Some type of camber limiter to stop wheel tuck would be good.

You may need stiffer springs if the car hits it's bump stops.

Then get a 4 wheel alignment to even up the camber and restore the factory toe settings.

Drive the car on the road and a track to see what it does.

Add a front bar to increase understeer. Add a rear bar to increase oversteer. Increase toe-in at the front to induce understeer and increase toe-out for oversteer. Bit by bit is the best approach her. Start with light bars and minimal alignment changes.

Those are my thoughts. Regards.

Regards

esratrams

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 10 Apr 2007, 9:32 pm

#584201

About 3 inches lower.............use adjusters on the front beam.............use adjustable spring plates on the rear.

humpty Bishop of Volkswagenism

3,336 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 12 Apr 2007, 12:38 pm

#584612

And you might want to try different tyres too... Depending on the type of motorsport you intend to do, I have found with a low HP car (Swinger/LP Beam) in autokana events, that a taller rear tyre (205/60-15) could be made to 'let go' EZR when running normal pressures... I run high pressures in the front (195/50-15).... Its a little bit of a black art, as different cars and different drivers and different conditions present different set-up needs.... I haven't done any circuit racing, so I can't offer any advise there....As Craig said, get it a little lower an CT suggested, get it back to OG alignment settings and start from there..... And I use both drop spindles and adjusters with OG springplates.... It works for me..... Just go try it out and see.

FUCH your early!

http://www.noh2o.org/

Der Kafer Trieber Casual Dubber

44 posts · joined Jan 2006 · 12 Apr 2007, 4:48 pm

#584661

Thanks for the help, I think i've decided on drops and adjusters and an adjustable rear, I had hillclimb, and the odd supersprint event in mind, that is once I can afford my engine, a pobjoy built twin plugger Type 4, 66mmx103mm

fullnoise Fahrvergnugen

964 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 12 Apr 2007, 6:56 pm

#584708

Hi DKT,

Cool idea for an engine combination.

Which state do you live in? Will you be joining us for some NSW events? The more the merrier.

esratrams

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 13 Apr 2007, 12:18 pm

#584901

Der Kafer Trieber wrote:Thanks for the help, I think i've decided on drops and adjusters and an adjustable rear, I had hillclimb, and the odd supersprint event in mind, that is once I can afford my engine, a pobjoy built twin plugger Type 4, 66mmx103mm

Same combo as my new pobjoy T4 engine :thumb

Der Kafer Trieber Casual Dubber

44 posts · joined Jan 2006 · 13 Apr 2007, 6:49 pm

#584966

Hey Craig was up at Stans 2 weeks ago, where do you think I got the idea, btw I secretly cradled your crank whilst i was there it's a beautiful thing...

and CT i'm in NSW, but don't hold your breath I have a work relocation to europe until next year...

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 13 Apr 2007, 9:09 pm

#584998

you probably kissed the JE pistons as well !!!😉

1303 Officially Full-On Dubber

250 posts · joined Sep 2003 · 14 Apr 2007, 11:35 am

#585060

Craig,

Is your new engine going into your hill climb car? or are you building a new toy?

Cheers

Paul

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 14 Apr 2007, 1:03 pm

#585074

New toy (well its an old toy being revived!):thumb

BeetleJuice Officially Full-On Dubber

350 posts · joined Sep 2006 · 15 Apr 2007, 4:30 pm

#585283

Der Kafer Trieber wrote:Thanks for the help, I think i've decided on drops and adjusters and an adjustable rear, I had hillclimb, and the odd supersprint event in mind, that is once I can afford my engine, a pobjoy built twin plugger Type 4, 66mmx103mm

Sh*% that'll go!:thumb

FringeDweller

BeetleJuice Officially Full-On Dubber

350 posts · joined Sep 2006 · 15 Apr 2007, 4:32 pm

#585284

Craig Torrens wrote:
Der Kafer Trieber wrote:Thanks for the help, I think i've decided on drops and adjusters and an adjustable rear, I had hillclimb, and the odd supersprint event in mind, that is once I can afford my engine, a pobjoy built twin plugger Type 4, 66mmx103mm
Same combo as my new pobjoy T4 engine :thumb

Hmm Craig...Wat ya up to now!

FringeDweller

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 28 Jun 2007, 10:38 pm

#599419

just building a high reving over 2lt motor! I want to see what a larger capacity "big bore x short stroke" motor will perform like.👍

fullnoise Fahrvergnugen

964 posts · joined Sep 2002 · 29 Jun 2007, 9:57 am

#599445

Hi Der Kafer Trieber,

I'm really happy with the way my car handled on the Dutton Rally. It has heaps of turn-in which helps on the tight motorkahanas and it doesn't oversteer on the high speed corners.

I thought it handled well but I wasn't sure because I haven't been in many beetles that I'd consider handle well. But Jak drove the car in half the events and loves the handling. A lot of the spectators and other competitors on the rally also commented that the car looks like it handles well.

At this stage I wouldn't change the balance between understeer and oversteer because its perfect. However I do wonder if adjustable shocks would help. I also need to do a bit more tyre testing with the pyrometer to get the optimium hot pressure.

Have a look at some of the pictures on the Dutton website (link below). Just go down to car 59. Hopefully that will give you and idea of what the car looks like in turns and how low it sits in order to give you some ideas with your own set-up.

Just before the dutton I reduced the neg camber on the front from 3.0 back to just 1.5 which gave me about 10% more steering lock and no lack of turn-in. I think 3.0 was excessive an not making the best use of the contact patch.

http://www.motorsportfotos.com/gallery/v/duttonrally/2007/NewSouthWales

I hope that helps.

Regards CT

esratrams

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 30 Jun 2007, 1:03 am

#599580

Congrats CT on your Dutton rally results. So whats next??