Transmission 091

supa74 · 19 Oct 2007, 9:46 am

im doing a ej20 twin turbo engine in my 74 super beetle and i keep hearing i should get the 6 rib 091 bus tranny. preferrable the 76-79 year model. i also hear i should get a 10 degree mount to adapt it to the beetle, along with the adapters n plates to mount it to the engine. the only thing i have yet to figure out and what to do about is how to change out the front nose cone to a front shifter instead of the side shifter. anybody have any links on the how to on this???
also what about lining up the shifter? i hear i suppose to get some adapter to adapt the shifter line up with the tranny and maybe cut it shorter??
if somebody has done this conversion or if somebody knows a link online about this , it would greatly help me out alot. many thanks .. cheers

555bug · 19 Oct 2007, 10:37 am

Talk to Custom Off Road in Brisbane. Second the side shift box's I'm told are not as strong as the front shift, I think you will find that the 76~79 box's are all front shift anyway so no stress. You'll have to have a good think about mounting solutions as you need the box 40mm further forward (give or take) to get the engine in. Post some pictures when you are getting closer.

Stephen

ratbug · 19 Oct 2007, 6:47 pm

I have a few pic of a kombi geabox into a beetle chassis which I just posted up into members rides. Its not the 091 box, but very similar apart from the fact that the 091 box is 10-15mm longer.

Also some good pics of the 091 box into the beetle chassis is page one at http://dunebuggyandbajaadventures.freeforums.org/viewtopic.php?t=31

These are for buggies, so theres a bit more room to keep the engine and gearbox striaght. The 091 geabox has the shift mechanism higher, but its not too hard to fix, you just have to weld two shift linkage bush's on top of one another. I've had this setup for years with no dramas.

supa74 · 20 Oct 2007, 7:01 am

hey ratbug will contact you later - got some business to take care of right now but would like to talk with you on your setup..
thanks 555 bug for the tip n info cheers

supa74 · 1 Nov 2007, 3:07 pm

ok brought a 79 091 6 rib front shift should be here monday. also got the 091 starter to go with it. amongest other things like fuse box i needed replacing in the beetle.
somebody told me i can use the bus cvs and axles if i was going baja style. is this true? then i had somebody else say i could use bus cvs but use my beetle axles but the driver side will be shorter.?????? umm i dont know
i do know i wanted the shifter be over the tunnel . so it seems like i need to do what u did ratbug. stack the 2 bushings n weld them. got a pic of this?

555bug · 1 Nov 2007, 7:47 pm

talk to Brad at COR they sell the bits you require 🙂

Baja Wes · 1 Nov 2007, 8:20 pm

you need wider and longer trailing arms to fit the bus axles. I run bus CV's on modified beetle axles (shoulders machined down to fit wider bus CV's) and empi stub axles (they have the bigger flange for the bus CV's).

two shift couplers welded together (sorry about the crap quality)

my 1800 box with sharpbuilt adaptor kit (I now run a 2L 091);

inital set-up

before the empi stubs I ran modified beetle stubs

blurry old pic of axles with shoulders machined down

view from above

supa74 · 2 Nov 2007, 5:43 am

thanks baja for the pics thats just what i needed to see. i can see why using the bus trailing arms.. the pics tells more than readin words at times. so your saying i can either modify the bug stubs to fit the bus cvs or go with the empi stubs which will fit. will the empi need to be machined down or no? and as far as with the shifter linkage, it looks like i can just stack n weld them together n thats it?

Baja Wes · 2 Nov 2007, 9:47 am

you can just put the gearbox in the car in neutral, put the gearstick in so it's vertical, and weld the couplings together.

The empi stubs come in a variety of configurations, one is the beetle stub to bus CV with metric M8 CV bolts. That is what I used. I had Mick Motors order them from the US. It would have been much cheaper to order from the US directly, but I couldn't find a company that would sell to Australia.

This is why I stopped using modified stubs, and why I decided not to try to find old porsche 944 or similar stubs;
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60913&page=1

supa74 · 2 Nov 2007, 10:18 am

geesh that nut looks overworked .. i can see why you wouldn't go with modified stubs any longer. so empi is the way to go i take it.. i went to your website earlier and glad theres a website with that info on it. im over here in the usa states, so i'll try to find those empi stubs here. thanks for the info. glad the page is up cause not many over here knows anything other than the 10 degree mount or over the tunnel shift linkage method. i think i have heard of everything but something that sounded good until i came over here to the aussieveedubbers.
i emailed your buddy on the supa sump pan , see if i can order it to where i can weld it onto mine, it was listed to be available. i hadn't heard back from him yet.. hes listed on ur website.. named mike.
also if you dont mind what kind of kit did you get for your mount/straps for the tranny?
Cheers

Baja Wes · 2 Nov 2007, 8:39 pm

My mount kit is a sharpbuilt kit - www.sharpbuilt.com.au, it took a little bit of tweaking, but it was an ok kit. There are heaps of cool kits in the US though.

Baja Wes · 2 Nov 2007, 8:51 pm

check out - http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/buggy/trans/buggytran1.htm - empi stubs (part 16-2304) for $79.95 US each. Buy the heavy duty bearing spacer kit too.

Baja Wes · 2 Nov 2007, 8:51 pm

check out - http://www.dansperformanceparts.com/buggy/trans/buggytran1.htm - empi stubs (part 16-2304) for $79.95 US each. Buy the heavy duty bearing spacer kit too.

mackaymanx · 2 Nov 2007, 9:08 pm

This is the 10 degree kit that http://www.idlewildoffroad.com.au/shop/index.php supplies.

http://www.sandscene.com.au/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=54

1303Steve · 2 Nov 2007, 10:40 pm

Hi

The 10 degree kit will also give you more sump clearance, handy with a EJ20.

Steve

supa74 · 3 Nov 2007, 3:41 am

thanks baja wes, i will definitly go for it...
also i was hoping not to go the 10 degree route. i like the stackin the couplers n welding them together and just get a modified sump pan.

supa74 · 3 Nov 2007, 4:04 am

has anybody cut n welded the bus axles shorter instead of having the beetle axles shoulders machined? im thinkin the only option on the axle part is either cut n weld the bus axles shorter, machine the beetle shoulders, or get wider/longer trailing arms. is this true?

11CAB · 3 Nov 2007, 5:09 am

just get the beetle axles machined....i wouldnt go for cut & welded axles....

supa74 · 3 Nov 2007, 5:52 am

ok machined it is :-)

split_trix · 3 Jan 2008, 4:38 am

what trailing arms are you using ? if 1303/ steel 944's sway away do axles that are the right length ..... if alloy 944 then 944 axles...

944 cv are the same diameter as type 2's..... the boxes that are side shift arent 091's they are from type 25's not bays....

the 10deg mounting is to get the nose cone to line up to the shift rod.... beetle axles will fit you just need to move the gearbox a touch forward..

most off-roaders use the 091's but change the cv's for universal joints for durability..

chris

supa74 · 3 Jan 2008, 5:16 am

split_trix check ur pms - sending you one now

Baja Wes · 4 Jan 2008, 8:32 pm

split_trix wrote:beetle axles will fit you just need to move the gearbox a touch forward..

No you don't. The gearbox is fine where it is.

The only alignment issue with the gearbox is the obvious shifter linkage location, and the fact the diff and bell housing centerlines aren't the same. So if you want axles the same length and with the same float then the bell housing and engine end up a little off center.

Swapping Cv's for universals was popular many years ago, but most people wouldn't bother now. The type 2 CV's will be plenty strong if your not running much CV angle.

matberry · 4 Jan 2008, 11:01 pm

Go Porsche 930 cv's . The kit from Rod Penrose which comes from the states, is ALL you need, beetle stub axles, 930 joints, boots, bolts, axles and drive flanges for either 091 or 002 kombi box. All for around a grand Oz delivered!

supa74 · 5 Jan 2008, 10:19 am

i prob wont have much of an angle so Wes info sounds more legit. however if i did have a grande to spend on suspension i'd go with 930s but evidently i dont have that kind of money right now. type 2 cvs n machine beetle axles sounds like the route i'll be going.. never heard of moving trans up for the beetle axles😁

supa74 · 25 Jun 2009, 11:42 am

i have stock trailing arms. from what i read up i can use 944 axles n cv's, still searching and askin around if the steel pre 85 -944 will be right bolt holes n size i need on stock arms bug and 091 tranny. seems the 181 thing is extremely hard to find. i know dont get the alloy arms or the automatic 944 axles. one shorter than other. found a good deal on some steel 944 axles with cv's but not sure if the holes will line up with my stock stub axles or what stub axles i need to get. i would go with stock bug axles n machine them back to accept the bus cv's, which is what im considering over the 944's. and get t1 to t2 conversion stubs. cause im not sure what fits n etc on the stub axles using the 944 axles/cvs.
i made my own custom rear mount for my 091 tranny. using a 1/4 plate of steel and used a picture of a mount from website and did my own measurements. it worked fine.
also plan to make my own custom mount strap to go around the top and come back down and bolt onto that plate, will be heavy duty compared to the straps on the market. also used a mid mount weld onto frame horns for a solid mount. the shifter which i did as wes picture shows.. lined them up and took out urethane bushing out and welded it and then put bushing back in. works fine, with exception i had to cut out the top of the frame area where firewall is above it, i also welded the seat belt holes or where the seat belt bolts into body area raised it up a little and welded it in place- then over the couplers i made a half box out of metal and bolted it onto the body where i can unbolt n take it off. i then put thin rubber gasket between that so it will seal out any vapors from comin in the cab area.
im trying to do a step by step website of all of this, i hope one day i can get the website figured out to put it all in order.

pete wood · 26 Jun 2009, 3:32 pm

sorry seems like a dumb qu, but why do you need an 091? a fully loaded single side plate box is very close to the same strength. bolts right into the chassis too. I only say this, cause all the yanks build beelte boxes for all but offroad and certain serious drag machines.

supa74 · 29 Jun 2009, 8:22 am

they have different gears n gear ratios.

pete wood · 29 Jun 2009, 9:43 am

yep, do you want the 091 for the ratios though?

reason I say this is, I just had this debate with someone on DSK who's fitting an atmo EJ25 to their bus. I ended up convincing him that the Lbug box would be a better alternative for his street bus. So unless you are planning on making really crazy power, in which case a porsche box would be the trick, the 3.88 ring and pinion in the Lbug box is the strongest one made by the factory anyway. It would also be much better for a turbo engine that makes mega torque. The ring and pinion ratio is the key bit I reckon, the rest of the box is do as you please with Albins making every concievable ratio for them.

Most of the guys on this forum are using the EJ20T with the Lbug box behind it for street stuff. The rest of them are using porsche boxes. Only offroad guys like me are using the 091.

supa74 · 29 Jun 2009, 2:07 pm

i think ur barkin up the wrong tree mate. i've talked to quiet a few 091 techs out there including wes on here n other guys.. im not using my bug as street only. i'll be climbin hills n so forth. im not into being convinced into other things when i already got the tranny mounted in my bug.. im sorry you feel you have to come try convince me or want to debate.. im not into debating on things. thanks though.