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1600 Cam in a 1200

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ratty 63 Custom Title Time!

1,083 posts · joined Oct 2003 ·

#618210
Hi everyone,

During a bit of a chat with other VW nuts today an idea came to me, I'm not sure if it is even possible to do,so I thought that I would ask your advice.

Is it possible to fit a 1600 cam in a 1200?

I have a number of 1200's that only need minor work to get them running reliably again and I thought that I would try a few things to improve the power output. I am told that the lobes are much 'steeper' on a 1200 cam than they are on a 1600 cam and that (therefore) the 1200 cams don't have as much overlap - so rather than have a custom cam ground-up, would it be possible to just fit a 1600 cam?

Has anyone experimented with this? If so, what were the results?

Whilst I'm asking, has anyone ever fitted a re-ground or custom cam to a 1200? What were the specs and how much difference did it make?

R 🙂
40hp, 6V and ...er... slowly making improvements 😂

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!

Founding member of the Gold Coast Dub Club Inc. 🙂

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#618241
Give Watsons Cams a call at Burliegh Heads 07-5593-7722

I have used there 1200 regrind cams and they work good

I dont think the 1600 cam will physically fit in the 1200 block
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

ratty 63 Custom Title Time!

1,083 posts · joined Oct 2003 ·

#618286
...just as a matter of interest, do you have the specs on the cam that you use?

R 🙂
40hp, 6V and ...er... slowly making improvements 😂

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!

Founding member of the Gold Coast Dub Club Inc. 🙂

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#618288
Hi

1200 & 1600 cams are interchangeable, just make sure that the 1600 one is 3 stud like the 1200 one. The later 1600 cams are 4 stud with a deep dish.

Steve

ratty 63 Custom Title Time!

1,083 posts · joined Oct 2003 ·

#618295
1303Steve wrote:Hi

1200 & 1600 cams are interchangeable, just make sure that the 1600 one is 3 stud like the 1200 one. The later 1600 cams are 4 stud with a deep dish.

Steve
Ahhhh! Now that an interesting piece of info - thanks Steve.

Is this something that you have tried?

I would really like to know what difference (if any) is made to the 1200 if you fit a 1600 cam...

R 🙂
40hp, 6V and ...er... slowly making improvements 😂

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!

Founding member of the Gold Coast Dub Club Inc. 🙂

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#618337
Hi

There are slight variations over the years with factory cams, nothing to get excited about. If you buy a new cam from Bergs, Engle etc they are all based on the dimensions of the 1200/40hp cam. You could fit 1600 rocker gear for a very slight power increase, they are 1.1 : 1 instead 1:1, VW54 did this to his car.

As a matter of interest the cam in the 1.9 and 2.1 Wasserboxer motor used in the Vanagon model is based on the 40hp style cam only its 4 stud like the late 1600 cam but also hydraulic.

Steve

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#618343
yeah the 1st grind from Watsons is like Engle 110
but using the later rocker you get a little more lift at the valve as well
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

Special Air Service Chief "Gunna"

1,769 posts · joined Oct 2004 ·

#618430
Sorry to hijack, but while we are on this topic can anyone tell me if late 1300 rockers are the same ratio as 1600's?

What are the distinguishing features of the 1600 rockers, ie. how do you tell them apart?

Cheers
Brendan
Calling all NSW Mid North Coast Veedubbers

Click Below
Mid North Coast VW

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#618439
Only the early 40hp rockers are 1:1 ratio.
Everything else from 1300 up (not type 4) is 1.1:1 ratio.

I found better gains I could feel in my 1200,
with exhaust, and intake manifold and carb, and nine spring 180mm clutch
Cam will move the power to a higher rpm, but the gains will be minimal without improved intake system.
It will feel different however.
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

ratty 63 Custom Title Time!

1,083 posts · joined Oct 2003 ·

#618666
Thanks for all that info guys.

I have begun collecting parts for my 'big bore' rebuild (ie: 1400 upgrade) and I am trying to put together a collection of parts that will give me a good balance between power (as much as a 1200 based engine can give!), economy and drivability.

I really want this engine to drive like a stock engine down low as I don't like revving engines too hard, so a big cam is out of the question. This is why I was wondering about the 1600 cam, which I am told has a longer overlap.... please correct me if this is wrong.

So far I have collected a late 1200 (twin relief) case, a brand new set of 1400 piston and barrels, a set of balanced rods with new gudgeon bushes fitted, a stock 1200 crank, a 200mm 6 volt flywheel, clutch and pressure plate (crank, flywheel and pressure plate are away being balanced at the moment). Of course I have new bearings and rings to suit.

I am planning on organising a set of twin port 1300 heads with 1600 valves fitted.

I have also picked up a couple of sets of 1500 Type III twin carbs to fit onto one of a couple of different manifolds that I have also collected in my travels. I'm not sure what type of filters I will run - but I want something that is not going to be noisy, but still look period in a '63 Beetle. Any suggestions?

As far as an exhaust goes, I have collected a couple of 1600 extractor/exhaust systems that are near new, but are slightly damaged - I plan on cutting and welding a combination of these along with some additional pieces of tube to create a 'tuck-up' style exhaust that will still exit through the standard cut-outs in the rear panel (my Brother is in charge of the bending and design of the exhaust as he has fitted the exact same thing to his G/f's car recently).

I have just managed to prise a dog-house style fan housing and cooler from my brothers grasp and I have begun welding up the unnecessary holes. This, along with the rest of the twin port tin will be sanded back and painted so that it all looks a little more... um...professional! 😀 Perhaps 'presentable' would be a better way to describe it...

I am also considering fitting a combination oil pump and filter that I already have in my possession ...but the jury is still out on that one...

My Brother has just offered me a cam from an engine that he pulled down a couple of years ago - it's a Wade 149. Anyone had any experience with this grind...sorry I'm not sure of the specs. He tells me that it performs better than a stock cam in a 1600, but the engine still idles smoothly - this is something that is important to me.

If you have any suggestions or comments as to what else I could do to my engine and/or parts combinations, please feel free to comment.

R 🙂
40hp, 6V and ...er... slowly making improvements 😂

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!

Founding member of the Gold Coast Dub Club Inc. 🙂

1303Steve Scirocco Rare

8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#618745
Hi

Look I'm all for people doing their own thing and modifying cars to suit their own taste. I have just got to say this and please take it as kind advice, forget the 1200 and put at least a 1600 in it.

Steve

ratty 63 Custom Title Time!

1,083 posts · joined Oct 2003 ·

#618778
1303Steve wrote:Hi

Look I'm all for people doing their own thing and modifying cars to suit their own taste. I have just got to say this and please take it as kind advice, forget the 1200 and put at least a 1600 in it.

Steve
Hi Steve,

I understand where you are coming from and why you say this - but as I have a large number of 1200 engines in my possession and no 1600's I'll stay with my original plan. I'm really only doing this out of interest to see what sort of result you can get from a 1200 - it's really only an experiment - the car was only going to get a stock 1200 in it otherwise.

Just in case you are interested - I have an EFI 1835 ready to go into my '66 steel sunroof bug and a Type IV being converted to upright cooling and EFI for my Baja.

R 🙂
40hp, 6V and ...er... slowly making improvements 😂

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!

Founding member of the Gold Coast Dub Club Inc. 🙂

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#618780
u will probally get about 35 hp at the wheels with the 1200 as Steve said its a waste if u want performance but however if you want nostaliger then got for it

Extractors n Twin carbies with a mechanical early kombi dissy are about the best options
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

ratty 63 Custom Title Time!

1,083 posts · joined Oct 2003 ·

#618786
vw54 wrote:u will probally get about 35 hp at the wheels with the 1200 as Steve said its a waste if u want performance but however if you want nostaliger then got for it

Extractors n Twin carbies with a mechanical early kombi dissy are about the best options
Wow - 35hp at the wheels! I'll get the speed wobbles with all that power! After all - I have been driving a well worn (ie: worn out) 1200 for years. 😀

....and I thought that my borrowed 1600 which is only running on 3 cylinders was powerful! 😀 I'll have to be careful!

Nostalgia, with a bit of extra power is all I'm interested in... just an experiment.

R 🙂
40hp, 6V and ...er... slowly making improvements 😂

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice!

Founding member of the Gold Coast Dub Club Inc. 🙂

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#618832
Dont worry i have done this before as well for the nostaliger

I found the Twin Carbies Ken Virgin type give better torque than the Judson supercharger I will be fitting up my 65 Sea Blue soon just got to over haul the Kombi dissy

Its all good fun
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#618911
ratty 63 wrote:my '66 steel sunroof bug

R 🙂
I have some old 40hp single ports I will swap for that old car that you don't need.
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#618958
🥲
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.