1970 bay upright conversion questions

botcolon Commited Dubber

64 posts · joined Oct 2006 · 10 Mar 2008, 9:37 pm

#636270

Hi,

just a quick question regarding an upright conversion (typeIV 2ltr) in a 1970 bus. Is it possible to retain the heating system? If so do you use the heater boxes that come with the typeIV engine? Is it possible to have an exhaust made with the heaters involved? and what would be a really quite exhaust/muffler combo I should look for?

Also, would an 1800 box be ok with a 2ltr engine? Would larger wheels offset the higher revs of the 1800 box.

botcolon

Warrenm Wolfsburg Wizard

466 posts · joined Aug 2004 · 12 Mar 2008, 11:23 am

#636454

botcolon wrote:Hi,

just a quick question regarding an upright conversion (typeIV 2ltr) in a 1970 bus. Is it possible to retain the heating system? If so do you use the heater boxes that come with the typeIV engine? Is it possible to have an exhaust made with the heaters involved? and what would be a really quite exhaust/muffler combo I should look for?

Also, would an 1800 box be ok with a 2ltr engine? Would larger wheels offset the higher revs of the 1800 box.

botcolon

You can connect the standard 1800 heater boxes to the original system.
You will barely notice the difference with 1800 box/2 litre engine.
You can find ratios, gearbox/transmission specs, final drive ratios here.

http://thekombikonnection.myfreeforum.org/forum19.php&sid=deb3a8e7f21692855cccda4c24dbf649

Kombi Konnection
Beetle Bugs and Dubs

botcolon Commited Dubber

64 posts · joined Oct 2006 · 16 Mar 2008, 6:11 pm

#636960

thanks for the info. Bought a recon 2ltr box.

I have feedback from the kombiclub forums that a lot of welding is required to fit the type 4 engine (with DTM) in an early bay. Anyone able to shed light on the conversion itself or a site that covers it well?

cheers
michael

Old Dubber Wolfsburg Wizard

605 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 17 Mar 2008, 12:21 pm

#637062

Michael,

As I said over in the kombi forum.
If you have an early '70 with the old style engine bay, then you have a big job ahead of you.

I converted an early '68 to 2Ltr engine and gearbox, and in hindsight, I would not go through the pain.

I disagree about difference with the 1800 box. I tried that - and the revs were too high on the highway (with 14" mags).

Give me a call if you like.

Grahame

Grahame
visit my club site at www.vwdcqinc.org.au

botcolon Commited Dubber

64 posts · joined Oct 2006 · 17 Mar 2008, 2:46 pm

#637081

quote from SAMBA website below (did I mention I will be attempting to use a DTM upright conversion, with no pancake accessories. will be buying some farbicated aluminium cooling tin:

anyone else able shed some photos of this type of conversion? cheers michael

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2821755

A T4 in its pancake configuration would indeed require considerable cutting and modifying. But, a T4 converted to an upright configuration, using either a Raby DTM, Cali or Sharpbuilt can be fitted into a early bay without cutting or chopping. You will have to modify the later bay rear hanger (or early Vanagon hanger) to fit the early bay since the early bay did not have the engine support frame horns like the split bus or T1's and earlier T3's the conversion presents a few problems, sealing the engine compartment can be accomplished with some creative alum sheet cutting or Jake sells a kit for the T4 engine in a T1 engine based vehicle. Dual carbs will be required, a modified 210 or 215mm flywheel, the 228mm will not fit in the early bay bell housing and some modification to the T4 exhaust. If done right there will no reversable damage to the early bay and can be converted back to a T1, but after you experience a T4 you will not want to go back.

Old Dubber Wolfsburg Wizard

605 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 19 Mar 2008, 2:39 pm

#637393

Michael,

As I said above mine is a '68, so there maybe some difference to yours.

The front gearbox mounts are different, but the 1600 mount will bolt up to the 2ltr,
you will need to change the studs over. The 2ltr gearbox has the rear
mounting "ears" on the top of the bell housing. This will require you to get the later
gearbox top mounts and cross member, and to fabricate the mounting points on the
chassis rails. You may choose not to do this (although I did). The bottom lip of
the fuel tank cover needs to be cut away to allow clearances for the cross member.

The 2ltr gearbox is also 10mm longer. This requires the selector nose to be shortened,
with the seal repositioned. The rear of the cross member where the front gearbox
mount sits will require the top lip to be removed. The gearshift selector (hockey stick)
will have to be shortened by 8mm and the dimple for the flexible coupling redrilled.

As it says in the Samba article, you will need to remove the old mounting brackets and fabricate new rear mounting brackets.

This means the bumper bar support brackets need to be shortened.

The rear valance requires major surgery for clearances of the fan and oil filler. (I guess
this may not be a problem with the upright kit.)
The standard muffler heat shield can no longer be fitted.
The standard muffler (and thunderbird extractors) will fit, but very close to engine seal.

The most difficult part was getting the engine tinware to seal.
The width between the ‘68 chassis rails is narrower through the engine compartment.

The accelerator travel needs to be increased from 15mm to 30mm. This was done by lengthening
the arm inside the chassis at the front of the bus and modifying the levers to the
accelerator pedal.

The existing heater cables are slightly longer.

The electrical wiring harness had to be redone.

The additional heater blower needs a support bracket on the top of the engine bay.

That's about all from my notes.

Grahame

PS
I can no longer fit the aircon compressor to the engine on its standard mount
Have yet to come up with some brilliant idea.

Grahame
visit my club site at www.vwdcqinc.org.au

botcolon Commited Dubber

64 posts · joined Oct 2006 · 20 Mar 2008, 3:59 pm

#637517

thanks grahame,

in hindsight you have a better view, but from your excellent detailed list...its not out overly complicated. Just need some planning and parts gathering. I think the upright kit and pre-fab tinware from the TypeIV store will assist me. I have already purchased a 2ltr gearbox to accompany my type IV engine.

michael

Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus

5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 24 Mar 2008, 7:00 pm

#637959

Hi Michael,

Although this was in my beetle, this may help a little:
http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/album292

Let me know if you have any questions. Also you can contact 66deluxe (Damo) here on AVD as he may be distributing some DTMs soon as he visited Jake Raby at aircooledtechnology in the US recently.

Cheers
Al

www.dasrestoparts.com.au

CAFFINEPUSHERMAN bandito di culo

1,609 posts · joined May 2005 · 1 May 2008, 1:15 pm

#643588

i got a 2lt 914 porsche motor in mine upright kit 1800 box all in a 68/9 single cab goes well but having a head f#ck with the tin wear as previous owner butchered engine bay goes hard though but prefered the 1600 in my old single will post pics no heater though sucks ass

A candy coloured clown they called the sandman tip toes through my room every night just to sprinkle stardust on my pillow go to sleep everything will be allright
1967 Type 3 square
1956 double door panel
1968 single cab kombi

CAFFINEPUSHERMAN bandito di culo

1,609 posts · joined May 2005 · 1 May 2008, 1:17 pm

#643589

type 4 in lowlight

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A candy coloured clown they called the sandman tip toes through my room every night just to sprinkle stardust on my pillow go to sleep everything will be allright
1967 Type 3 square
1956 double door panel
1968 single cab kombi

CAFFINEPUSHERMAN bandito di culo

1,609 posts · joined May 2005 · 1 May 2008, 1:19 pm

#643590

the greasr

1 attachment · Log in to view

A candy coloured clown they called the sandman tip toes through my room every night just to sprinkle stardust on my pillow go to sleep everything will be allright
1967 Type 3 square
1956 double door panel
1968 single cab kombi

Kombirod Learner Dubber

11 posts · joined Nov 2007 · 4 Sep 2009, 9:55 pm

#733482

Check on the Kombiclub forum for an update on this topic

Don't drop in, ever!

Klaus Custom Title Time!

1,439 posts · joined Aug 2004 · 7 Sep 2009, 8:58 am

#733853

why not just modify shifter rod length not gearbox? alot easier