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Restoring cars - it's a serious undertaking

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Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus

5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#639872
Saw this link on ozrodders forum:
http://www.lesliejwest.com/Restoring_Cars_-_It_s_A_Serious_Undertaking.html

Here is the pasted article in case you're too lazy to click on the link 🙂 Just thought it might be of some interest as it confirms a lot of my thoughts to date!

"It's a serious undertaking when you restore a car, the biggest part of it is to be prepared for anything, if your doing it yourself then make sure that you have a good system for cataloging the parts that come off of the car that your doing, and be prepared for the un foreseen, it's a lot of work and a lot more time, it never a quick venture.

Make sure that you really love the car that your restoring, because if you don't it will probably get boring and monotonous, and that is the last thing you want to happen, this is how people end up with half done projects, and cars that they hate, be prepared with the money that you'll need to do the project, and it won't be just a little bit either, it will be a considerable investment of time and money.

Don't fall in to the old trap of thinking that the car is in good condition because of what it looks like on the outside, this can be very deceiving, be sure to look at everything from the inside out, most cars have a lot of hidden work that's not seeable from the outside, so be sure to open the trunk and look at the floor of it, pull up the front carpet just a bit and look at the main floor board of the car.

On the out side look for bubbles in the paint on the car, this usually indicates that the paint has rust underneath it, look real hard at the rocker panels of the car, and around the rear wheel wells, and always look under the wheel wells at the rear outer wheel well, open the hood and look at the engine compartment for rust, and bad wiring, these are tell tail signs that the car will need a considerable amount of work to make it drivable.

If your planning on having a shop do your restoration for you, then be prepared to give them what they need to restore your car, as I have said earlier, you will be spending a lot of money to restore your car, so be prepared, a shop will need parts on a regular basis until your car is done, and they will need paint supplies, and a lot of other things, and most shops don't have the space to store your car if no work is being done, so give them what they need to build your car.

A restoration of a car that's in good shape will usually take about 900 hours of work, and if the car is in bad shape it can take a lot more, but remember that you get what you pay for, if you want the car done really fast they will need more then one person working on it, and this will mean that you'll be charged at the shop's labor rate for each person working on your car, if you can wait and you have some time to complete the project, then you will more then likely save some cash.

Most shops will try do restore your car for the best price that they possibly can right at the first, so bargaining with them to lower their prices probably won't work with most shops, the shops don't make a high profit margin on their work and usually can't afford to be cutting their prices, and in most cases shops don't do estimates, due to the fact that it's pretty much impossible to estimate a restoration project because there are so many variables that enter in to it, it's a lot different from a collision repair shop.

In a restoration there is no standard for the time that it takes to perform a certain task, and it is impossible to know what's rusted or damaged in the car until you start the project, the shop has to tear in to the car to find all of the defective areas of it, and this can't be done without bringing the car in to the shop and putting a man on it, it's never just a matter of a simple looking at the car, it a matter of locating everything that has to be done, and it is never an easy job.



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About the Author
I live in Salt Lake City, Utah, and have been in the automotive business for about 25 years, and during that time I have worked in all facets of the industry, plus owned my own shops, like I do now."
www.dasrestoparts.com.au

Pumba Veteran Volks Folk

2,138 posts · joined Jan 2007 ·

#639895
Well said and very true,next time someone ask the question how much to paint my car,i think you show them this thread that should give them a good indication of the cost involved.👍
69 Beetle
66 Beetle
56 Beetle

OZ Towdster Keen to finish some projects

1,921 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·

#639897
Check out this blokes site. http://gallery.oldholden.com/Streetneat/

I just happen to meet Andrew the owner of Street Neat the other day while we were both droping of our late model holden crewmans at a Holden Service Centre.
We got talking while waiting for some other customers and the Bathurst Monaro that he shows on his site above cost a staggering $120,000.00 to restore so as stated in that extract in Das's post it can soon become an expensive bussiness doing a GOOD restoration.
Coinsidently Andrew also worked for Gary Conti @ Conti Engines way back when , so he has a soft spot for the VW brand too.
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel

dangerous 23 Windows of Awesome

5,901 posts · joined Jan 2005 ·

#639901
"A restoration of a car that's in good shape will usually take about 900 hours of work, and if the car is in bad shape it can take a lot more, but remember that you get what you pay for, if you want the car done really fast they will need more then one person working on it, and this will mean that you'll be charged at the shop's labor rate for each person working on your car, if you can wait and you have some time to complete the project, then you will more then likely save some cash.

Most shops will try do restore your car for the best price that they possibly can right at the first, so bargaining with them to lower their prices probably won't work with most shops, the shops don't make a high profit margin on their work and usually can't afford to be cutting their prices, and in most cases shops don't do estimates, due to the fact that it's pretty much impossible to estimate a restoration project because there are so many variables that enter in to it, it's a lot different from a collision repair shop."

This quote from Alan's post above says a lot.
900 x shop rate =.....plus parts.
I don't think many people know how much a project will cost until the are well into it.
westi wrote:That's mad Alan.

Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus

5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#639908
I think people shouldn't be discouraged by the above figures by the way - I guess what I wanted to get across was the fact if someone wants a high quality job it is giong to cost a lot. If people are happy to use lower quality materials, and less labour time in prep then a resto can be affordable. My concern is that some people expect a show quality job but only want to pay for 100 hours of work.

When my old man got his Chev Corvair painted a while back the painter said to him, "I can give you a $5000 job, a $10000 job, or a $20000 job - the quality of the finish will be dependent on what you want to spend". I guess this is a good way to think about it. I just liked the article above as it summarised a lot of good points.

I remember seeing a sign in a shop many years ago, it said "GOOD, FAST, CHEAP - you can only have two of the above in this shop"......meaning if you want a good job for cheap, you won't be able to get it done quickly as it will only be done in down time or after hours......or if you want a good job and get it done fast, as above in Dave's quote it won't be cheap as more than one person will have to work on it at a time.....and finally if you want a cheap job and have it done quickly, it won't be good!

Al
www.dasrestoparts.com.au

StenGuns Veteran Volks Folk

2,147 posts · joined Mar 2004 ·

#639909
Makes me a bit nervous and excited about my next long term resto/rebuild (67 Pontiac Firebird HO or SS/RS Monaro, whichever project car we find first).. I'm budgetting on 70K tops (thats why we are taking our time sourcing the car) which is not too bad considering a 67 beetle re-build will cost me 35K.. Metal is metal.. Doesn't matter if its off a billy cart or an Aston.. If you want the work done to the highest standard (that means NO COMPROMISES), it will COST.. Big time.. Starting with a very straight and honest car can save a fortune.. If I had ny time again on the 67 beetle I would have thrown the body away for a better one.. saving $$$ even if the donor was twice the price.. Unless the car is a rare item (eg: I saw a 23 samba a few weeks ago that was a basket case but justifiably cost 50G's).. Total respect to Alan's work.. When he takes the step into a commercial fabrication/custom shop, he will have customers lining up.. Being true to your craft is what every car owner looks for in a restorer.. NOT how much $$ per hour.. If you need to ask that question, you can't afford the answer and should go and find an honest runner that needs a tidy up.. That won't give you perfection on wheels though which is what we are all striving for...

StenGuns Veteran Volks Folk

2,147 posts · joined Mar 2004 ·

#639910
Talking about funny shop signs.. On the way to Ubud in Bali. A sign on a shop..

"Quality antique furniture... Made to Order"

baybuscamperkid prince of insufficient light, ruler of heck

4,316 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#639917
all the more reason to learn to do it yourself 😀
Reimagined/Recycled/Upcycled Cool

ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell

3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 ·

#639925
Most people restore a car and forget all the important stuff.
Like all the Mechanical stuff the gear box,suspension, brakes, sure now it looks great and has no rust and they call it a full resto when they are selling it 🤪I hate seeing vw beetles restored and they have a sagy rear end and the owner says thats how they all are.😂
😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲

5PL1TDCS10N Insano Dub Head

845 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#639927
It is afterall a specialised skill that has taken years to perfect and will be charged accordingly.

The difference is its not that difficult to learn with time, practice and lots of patience.

"Pay peanuts...get monkeys."

ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell

3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 ·

#639943
vw magazine Australia has a good write up about Dollars and sense, they are up to part 12 and it does not look like they are going to miss a thing.
😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲

Volksaddict Wolfsburg Wizard

533 posts · joined Dec 2004 ·

#639967
...great read...this post should be a 'sticky'
Cheers&Beers
Ray V

Calcool Fahrvergnugen

965 posts · joined May 2005 ·

#640429
Having done numerous restorations myself and helped with pleanty of others in the past.

I really struggle with my favourite TV show "OVERHAULIN" these guys do the impossible of what is being spoken about hear.

I think to the uninitiated watching this show they truly beleive a restoration can be undertaken in 8 days, when I did my Karmann it took me 6 months just to get the Bumpers Chromed.

It is a great passion and real sense of achievement, you learn a lot along the way too for the better, I was a very impatient sort of a person before my forst restoration and my 2 sisters who have no knowledge or interst in cars said I was a far more patient person after completing the resto, so I guess I did bit of a resto on myself while I was at it.

Just a few thougths from a guy with a house resto, a 55 resto, 69 Micro resto, a new son and never enough time for my other passion, golf.

Cheers,

David

Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus

5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#640474
You're right David re. overhaulin (one of my favourite shows too)....Chip Foose often puts it into perspective when he calculates how much time they have left before the big reveal....in reality it may only be say 2 days, but as he says when you have 12 guys working on it around the clock that equates to 576 hours of work - for one person working normal hours (8 hrs per day) that would be 72 days full time!!

Patience is certainly a necessity during a restoration!
www.dasrestoparts.com.au

blutopless2 DAMSLO

2,457 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#640486
we went into our rebuild with an open mind about how long it would take and how much. Lots of little things that i didn't take into account and didn't even think of doing until the car was being put back together again. cost more than we budgeted but we left little untouched on the car. i didn't want to have to spend more on it in a year or two.. figured would be better to have it completed now and enjoy it for many years to come.
its also a pretty stressful time too.. parts to arrive.. hold ups etc... will definitely approach the rebuild on our oval a little differently this year.
see.... air and water do mix 😉

1974 1300
1997 MK3 Golf GL
2003 NB Cabrio
2012 Golf VI GTI
2014 Audi A4 Quattro

65busser Moderator Custom Title Time!

1,795 posts · joined Nov 2002 ·

#640500
Yeah, lucky I love doing this sort of stuff or it would drive me crazy!

As long as you always remember the love Al. Never forget to remember to enjoy it!

www.busnbug.com

Flintstones Custom Title Time!

1,077 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#640630
Resto's are not cheap, it gets worse if you want to customize a part or panel for an individual look.......

Cheers
D

VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome

5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·

#640889
hey Al, gimma a quote on this, willya?!

My 'next' project.... after I get all my existing projects completed!

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Pay your debts, CxxT

gotowo Learner Dubber

8 posts · joined Apr 2008 ·

#641019
I have just had my 550 spyder restored - it was in reasonable condition when I bought it, but was pretty much stripped down to fibreglass with everything new from seats, wheels, gauges, wiring, paint and the list goes on - all except the original type 1 1500 engine - at that point I had already sold one of my children and only had the favourite one left to pay for it. Approx 600 man hours by a classic porsche restorer. There is always a point where you know you have to stop - I kept fooling myself until there was absolutely nothing left. I still have a lot of issues with the suspension and the engine, but that is what owning a classic is all about - getting your hands dirty! I now have many years to fix it up - at least it looks good on the outside!

Before...



After...





It is easier to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission

Flintstones Custom Title Time!

1,077 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#641061
The Spyder looks sweet!!
Especially the interior
Cheers

Cam Custom Title Time!

1,535 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#641935
That spyder is wicked! Got to love those EU rego plates too 😎

gotowo Learner Dubber

8 posts · joined Apr 2008 ·

#641951
I was amazed the plates were still available - spose there are less that a doz 550s in Oz and only 6 or so in Melb! Mine is the only white one here and one of only a handful in the world - probably only one in this configuration of colours and finish - makes me feel special!
It is easier to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission

gaz58t2 Slammed & Awesome Dubber

84 posts · joined Apr 2008 ·

#642627
Hi guys
this is a depressing read, yeah it gets expensive but just get in there and do it im doing my 58 t2 complete resto worse thing is being in Darwin and getting parts chasing parts no con no's etc.6 months star to finish all my holidays and TIL ,if it goes on to long i will lose interest.Few people giving me a hand, Rueb with the paper work and some tech info and Dave with the gear box George with parts, may be a few more as time goes by.Started Easter week end 5 months left and im kinda on schedule just a few things gone missing.yes its not cheap,but dont smoke, dont do drugs this is my vice in life and i cant get enough
Bring it on
Gazza

gotowo Learner Dubber

8 posts · joined Apr 2008 ·

#642703
Two things I don't have - time and knowledge - the knowledge is coming (slowly)
It is easier to beg for forgiveness than to ask for permission

Dasdubber DAS Resto Haus

5,746 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#642912
I thought this thread was really interesting on Kustom Coach Werks:
http://www.kustomcoachwerks.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2386


This is a good explanation from John Jones (the owner of the business)....a lot of people ask me "how much is a resto going to cost?".....very hard to answer as you can see here from John:

"What does the KCW experience cost.. Man, thats the million dollar question.

It cost $50 an hour.. Per man, per hour. Simple cars.. around 400-500 hours.. More complicated, like a Howard project or deluxe window bus, leather interior etc.. The sky's the limit. Those projects, you can't talk about budget, you talk about end product. Paint jobs.. Plan on $15K plus on a clean bug with usual rust repair, $20K plus if it is really rusty... Busses.. $20K plus, JUST to paint. Thats the normal KCW style everything stripped blasted painted inside and out top bottom, all the parts everything. Doors back on ready for you to assemble. I hate sending home a car not done.. People do not realize how much work goes into assembly, and what a pain in the ass it can be... I have repainted alot of shit due to an accident during assembly. I work will work on your car as long as you want me to, I will do as much as you want me too, I will make it as nice as you want.. But you are going to pay me for all that time.. (unless I f*ck something up, ofcourse I will fix that on my own time).

I think it's a good idea to have double what you think if you are an optimistic thinker.. If you plan for the worst ahead of time, then you should be good to go.. I take no money up front, but expect to be paid weekly, on time for work already completed (only exception is parts and materials, you pay for that stuff upfront.). Ofcurse you will never be in the dark here, I post and update you everyday as to whats going on.. You'll never have to wonder what was done or where your money went..

I don't think I am any more expensive than anyone else.. Anyone known in the industry anyway.. And it seems we all have out specialty. Mine.. get it done, build a nice nice driver. I do not claim perfection.. I do build nice cars.. Ask anyone of my customers, I think they will all agree. Go on.. ask em!! I don't claim perfection because I question weather perfect is really possible. I promise I will do my best, with what I have, to make your car as nice as possible. Perfect cars.. Cost $100's of thousands.. I would say those cars get built a few times.

Start with a nice car!! Shawn's oval is a great example of someone who brought me a nice car, and got the entire car built, turnkey, for justa little more than some have just in paint and body, simply becasue he had almost zero rust repair.. Now if you are doing some rare car or sentimental value car, thats not an option, and plan on it costing more.. Think of it as costing more to do the car, not me charging you more because of what it is. I just charge for time.. Most people don't have time anymore, so I sell time, tools and knowledge. I am very motivated person.. I work hard and so do my guys, to make your dream come true.. I doubt you will find another shop that will work as hard as KCW to get your car done in a timely manner..

This stuff is expensive, and the cost for materials, gas and life in general has not helped.. Everything has gone up.. Look at homes, land, gas and the price for projects.. I am also not a moonlighter.. We pay taxes, all my guys pay taxes, workmans comp, garge keepers insurance etc etc etc.. Seems alot of times I have people comparing my prices with guys who "fly under the radar".. I have said it before.. I don't think you will find any one who will work harder for you than KCW.. Shit gets done here...

I think the benifits of the KCW experience out weigh the cost.. but only those who have gone through it can testify to that."
www.dasrestoparts.com.au