Skip to content
Aussieveedubbers

ej20t into a squareback

0 likes
Share Share on Facebook Share on X Share on Reddit
Log in to reply

Monkeydub Learner Dubber

9 posts · joined Aug 2008 ·

#661784
Hi,

I'm after shoehorning an ej20t into my '65 squareback. Everything is stock at the moment. I'm going to collect parts slowly as time allows. Anybody got any links or info on this conversion....I've seen the subynotch link but I'm after squareback specifically. I'm no stranger to turbo conversions as I've recently completed a type1 turboed engined bay window, but am a little of a loss when it comes to efi.

Engine wise, what year can I use upto? Could I use a Version 5 STI model engine 98-99?

pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#661870
I guess the major thing is that the engine is significantly taller than a pancake motor. I think you might need to enlarge the engine cover, although I may be wrong about that. Certainly, enlarging it will make working on the car easier. You will also want to brace the chassis horns by triangulating them up to the shock towers and such. A good tranny with an albins gear set and a superdiff will help you a lot. The biggest issue will be where to put the intercooler.
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

Monkeydub Learner Dubber

9 posts · joined Aug 2008 ·

#661982
pete wood wrote:The biggest issue will be where to put the intercooler.
I was thinking about a water/air intercooler so placement would be less critical.

Regarding the engine cover, how much does the engine stick out by and has no-one found an OEM cover that fits? I would like to retain the 205x5 wheel stud configuration for a stock appearance but I need to replace all 4 drums with brakes, I know 205x5 beetle discs don't fit...any other options?
pete wood wrote:You will also want to brace the chassis horns by triangulating them up to the shock towers and such.
Are there any aftermarket braces available or will it be DIY?

Are there any images/pics of an install knocking around?

pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#662163
first up, unless you are planning to do some serious drags, can I suggest moving to IRS. Keep the early rear subframe with the horns and convert this to IRS. Gearboxes are your next drama. Either an Lbug box with albins gears and superdiff, a bus box with special albins gears or a porsche G50. More power = more $$$

Then make up a kafer style brace like this one....

http://www.csp-shop.de/cgi-bin/shop2/shop_main.cgi?func=start&wkid=2477153725

avoid the b#gpack style as it puts a bending load along the long bar that should brace the shock towers. Obviously you also need a different engine mount bar too. I'd also look at adding some extra framework to the rear of the car to stiffen it up, because they were never designed to support the power and torque of an EJ20. I'd compare it to putting a 350chev in an FJ holden.

I don't think you can find an OEM cover that will fit. You could graft in a bus engine cover surround and make up a fibreglass cover that bulges up and over the motor. Alternatively, a false floor that is a few inches higher will give you less space in the boot but a neater installation. you could put everything under it. computer, tanks, intercooler etc. I've seen a UK build early square with such a setup and a 993 flat 6 in it. The false floor in his car was perspecs so you see the motor under it. very cool, but not much boot left.

As a man who's kept 5x205 rims on his buggy, I wish I hadn't. There are a heap of others avaible in all sorts of stud patterns, wide 5 is the hardest to get anything in unless it's classic looking or offroad racing rims. there are a number of disc conversion for them, front and rear, but it won't be cheap...but then I guess you already know that, right. 😉

Anyway, I guess the point is, if you want to do it right, it will mean doing it such that it won't be easily reversable. I can't really help you with the efi side of things except to say, there are new rechipping systems for the later ej20ts and they are supposed to both excellent and legal. I'd talk to MRT or quickfit motorsport about them.

There are a heap of guys who've done EJ20ts into notches and fasties and a few into squares. Hopefully they'll still their noses in here as well.
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

VWCOOL 23 Windows of Awesome

5,158 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·

#662190
A Square conversion is more complicated than a Fasty or sedan due to the engine effectively being in the passenger compartment of the vehicle, not behind a firewall. You will need to chop out the floor forward of the OE engine cover to the level of the rear seat to fit TB and intercooler and fabricate a heat and air-tight 'firewall' box to meet engineer's specs.

Swing subframe converted with IRS pivots and trailing arms is sensible, if not mandatory unless you want to kill yourself with evil handling. It's a good idea to brace this to the shell inside the rear wheel wells.

Due to flex incompatibility between OE VW and Subie mounts, it's a good idea to support the rear of the new engine with fabricated mount/crossbar to the body. Unlike Beetle, the rear of the Type 3 shell is strong enough for this (within reason!), as that's how the original VW engine is supported

I believe wiring pre 1997 engine management is easier, no VCT or VAT to de-bug. There are specialists who can assist, or contract-assemble, wiring harnesses (eg Sideshow Performance Wiring). Rads fit up front without too much effort. You wil of course require coolant pipes, upgraded fuel system, small swirl pot, return lines etc etc

You will need split-circuit brakes and four-wheel discs (vented fronts) to satisfy state Codes of Practice for legal rego as this is what the Subie donor car was fitted with. I can provide kits front and rear in Porsche, VW or Commodore etc stud pattern, but not 'wide five'.

HTH

EDIT: I assumed you were in Australia...!
Pay your debts, CxxT

Monkeydub Learner Dubber

9 posts · joined Aug 2008 ·

#662319
This is what I will be fitting the motor too:




I would really like to keep the 205x5 stud pattern as I want the car to be a real sleeper. For now I am going to keep the swing axle gearbox until funds allow an upgrade. For the brakes I will try and source some discs up front but will be retaining the drums at the rear intially.

Regarding cutting up the floor. Is it not possible to relocate the intercooler to help keep more of the floor in tact?

Monkeydub Learner Dubber

9 posts · joined Aug 2008 ·

#662321
thanks for the link...will give it a read through. Why did you choose to flip the TB like SubyNotch?

pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#662351
I predict that your tranny will last somewhere in the order of a week with a big turbo and new found excitement. But I could be wrong. Lovely square there.

have you seen this car?





Looks up http://www.typethreedetectives.com/

then look in the gallery at the 993 powered square. Be a good place to start getting ideas I reckon. Heck, maybe you could use a porsche motor instead of a subaru turbo.
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

Klaus Custom Title Time!

1,439 posts · joined Aug 2004 ·

#662403
good idea putting ej20t into squareback , mines now clocked up 40 000kms with few dramas .
I ended up making a cradle set up to support engine and box as i used irs subframe so i had enough room to run 3 inch exhaust. Brakes wise i've converted to dual circuit and all discs and drums from a 72 squareback , its not a racecar setup but it works fine as long as you know your limits. Gearbox is again from the 72 and is single side plate with 4.125 stock everything not even rebuilt just fresh oil .
engine is 92 rs legacy with water to air intercooler (stock) and i had to cut the loading area completely out.

3 attachments · Log in to view

Monkeydub Learner Dubber

9 posts · joined Aug 2008 ·

#662502
Thanks for the images...makes me want to brake out the spanners now!

Klaus why didn't you flip the TB and relocate the alternator like this: http://www.subynotch.com/. It looks like he got away with cutting any of the load area....I know it's in a notch but should be the same size access hole to deal with. What does you SQ cruise at with you tranny? Also what are the noise levels like inside the car. This will be used as my daily and I don't want my ears to bleed each time I get in.

Monkeydub Learner Dubber

9 posts · joined Aug 2008 ·

#662578
Klaus - just so i'm straight on what you did. You converted to IRS which doesn't have the engine supports but to compensate for this you fabriacted your own engine mount? If I installed a camber compensater to my swing axle setup would there be any necessity to convert to IRS?

pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 ·

#662595
there's no necessity per se to convert to IRS, except all the stronger VW gearboxes are IRS, 1303, bus etc. Also, IRS is a much better handling system for going round corners. It just makes sense to convert to IRS while you are there is all.
"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

Monkeydub Learner Dubber

9 posts · joined Aug 2008 ·

#662846
What 200mm pressure plate is recommended for over 200bhp and what for 300bhp?

Also are there any 'how to's' for sorting the wiring loom....how hard is it to do?

rocknrob Insano Dub Head

844 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·

#662961
after you've spent three months of brainstrain trying to figure the wiring😬 you look back and think...yeah that was easy really🤓

Klaus Custom Title Time!

1,439 posts · joined Aug 2004 ·

#662976
didn't flip the tb because it all fitted so nicely with the intercooler and everything is factory length induction .
just about to update torsion bars to 28mm as it sits on the bumpstops with all tools in the back for work . and its chewing the tyres out pretty quick. Noise is nice even with factory blow off valve . Old car lots of noise no carpets just steel floor and a little bit of carpet covering engine cover ( still the temp mdf ). Body is starting to show signs of age and 200hp so a freshen up is due soon , would have liked to do this in a later type 3 wagon as they have alot more bracing .
revs sit at about 3200 at 100kph so 3.88 would be nice so it just sits of boost. Yeah wiring was fun just went through harness labelling and removing things not needed.

Monkeydub Learner Dubber

9 posts · joined Aug 2008 ·

#663539
Does any1 know of the dimensions of the twin turbo? Also what are these motors like...have been offered one with a bus box and it's caught my attention.

Monkeydub Learner Dubber

9 posts · joined Aug 2008 ·

#663720
Are the longblocks the same as the single turbo engines....any issues etc?