Anyone had any experience whether ethanol blend is ok in a carby'ed engine?
I am looking for any evidence of using E95 and having lean combustion, and therefore excess temperature, or even engine failure as a result?
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
68AutoBugBeetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --
My complaint about the E10 was that it used quite a bit more on the 400km to Tamworth compared to std unleaded on a Commodore. Used it a couple of times in the S but only on short trips so not enough to give any problems or allow comparisons. The extra consumption outweighed the cost/litre saving.
Haven't noticed it being sold here in the UK but will have a look tomorrow when I fill up again. Cost for std unleaded here is from 1.12 to 1.20 GBP/litre. Just close the eyes when I fill up the Vectra with at least 50 quid which gives about 400 miles, depending on the road conditions. Once you get off the motorways average speed can be around 50k/ph or less up north as roads are near single lane!
Too many tourists here............ oops guess I'm one of them! 👍
DH
BizarreModeratorThe artist formerly known as blue74l
I emailed a few people and ended up I stopped because the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries http://www.fcai.com.au/ethanol
says the extra oxygenation of fuel is not good for steel lines and rubber hoses
The link seems to de different now - so i will go looking again for the information
Futue te ipsum!!!
BizarreModeratorThe artist formerly known as blue74l
What happens when ethanol is used in non-suitable vehicles?
There is an increased possibility of metal fuel tanks and lines corroding or rusting
The chance of plastic fuel tanks swelling and breaking down is increased
The possibility of plastic and rubber fuel lines deteriorating is increased
There is a possibility of fuel injector O-rings breaking down
Carburettor floats and seals are susceptible to deterioration
Certain engine components may not be compatible with ethanol
Engine management mapping parameters may not be fully compatible with E10, creating idle, driveability and starting concerns, plus hot weather performance issues
Yeah Dave thats where I was heading.
I had my first engine failure last week, after more than 70 air cooled engines, that hurt.
There I said it. Ouch!
I can only put it down ot the Ethanol.
2000 km with no signs of problems.
Engine temps too cool if anything.
Towed a trailer (very small camper, probably no more than 300kg all up) 700 km's or so.
Service with tappet adjust, oil change tune etc,
after filling with E95,
150 km later, seized with near blue barrels.
Temp not noticed untill after turned off for 15min, and its now very hot, yet ambient still under 20 deg.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
I wouldn't use it myself in any of my volkies and haven't seen anyone with a positive as yet. There is an article in the latest Auto magazine and basically it says no to early model vehicles as it can affect the fuel hoses,lines etc. I will see if I can copy and post the major points if you like,but as I see it , it is higher octane,runs hotter with less power and uses more fuel to do the same job. Some of my customers with Toyotas say approx 1/3 more fuel for same trip.
Craig Torrens6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Craig Torrens wrote:I use it in my beetle...........no probs 👍
Interesting Craig
Is this a Normal roadgoing 1600 beetle?
Lee
yep 1500 SP...............but then I would put 3yr old mower fuel in the tank....my opinion is that if they run in 3rd world countries, then any fuel in Aus is better 😂 hehe
there seems to be a bit of cross confusion here as to who is referring to which concentarion of ethanol
I use E10 with indifference, 1600SP - 1500 heads (industrial motor) 31 PICT2 with 127 main, 125 air 55 idle
i - 1300 vac only distributor 9 deg btdc, been running like this ok about 30,000km mostly on E10 cruising 3000 -3400 revs
hope that helps someone
Please, I need drivers side window regulator (winder mechanism) for my '54
68AutoBugBeetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --
grumble wrote:I wouldn't use it myself in any of my volkies and haven't seen anyone with a positive as yet. There is an article in the latest Auto magazine and basically it says no to early model vehicles as it can affect the fuel hoses,lines etc. I will see if I can copy and post the major points if you like,but as I see it , it is higher octane,runs hotter with less power and uses more fuel to do the same job. Some of my customers with Toyotas say approx 1/3 more fuel for same trip.
Wow thats a big difference...
I used E10 in a Magna years ago for years..
never had any problems...
I have new fuel hoses in My beetle
electric fuel pump etc..
but I hate BLUE Cylinders...
Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
68AutoBugBeetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --
What is the blend on E10 fuel ,as the blend on E95 is 5% ethanol ( or 10% ) 95% unleaded .The yanks have had good results with E85 bio fuel , which is true 85% ethanol and 15% unleaded ,it's like using methanol fuel which burns quicker . Lots of take on cal-look website . Sorry to here that Matt !
I think you will find that modern engines like the Magna have knock sensors built into the putors and therefore compensate for the lack of octane in the fuel and then add more fuel when using a lesser octane rationg like the E10
and older carby engie has a fix main jet and therefore would have to be increase in size to compensate for the lesser fuel octane rating
vw54 wrote:and older carby engie has a fix main jet and therefore would have to be increase in size to compensate for the lesser fuel octane rating
A standard beetle has around 7.5:1 compression........even extra low octane fuel would run fine.
And re jet size........well in theory you need a different jet size driving in Katoomba than say Cronulla !
Matt,I think the towing probably killed it ,not the fuel. You were probably right on the limit before,and the extra load on the motor from towing probably pushed it over the edge.
Adding ethanol to 91/95/98 octane fuel will increase the overall octane rating. The carby/injection changes required are due to the lower calorific value of the ethanol compared with 91/95/98 fuel and also the increase in oxygen in the fuel.
I have been running E10 in a 1979 Lancia Beta, 1990 Peugeot 405 Mi16 and a 2002 Renault Laguna II with no ill effects. Seems like the lawyers are having more input than the engineers on this issue.
I am hoping to try E85 if United ever make good on their promise and sell it over in Virginia. (Using something like this: http://www.fullflexint.com/index.html ) (not on my bugs obviously)
Thanks for the responses guys. Am getting the engine parts looked at by crankshaft eng soon, as they had already measured all bearing clearances prior to assembly, so we can compare the condition of the components.
I believe the E95 is 10% ethanol with an octane rating of 95 (RON?)
vw54 wrote:I think you will find that modern engines like the Magna have knock sensors built into the putors and therefore compensate for the lack of octane in the fuel and then add more fuel when using a lesser octane rationg like the E10
and older carby engie has a fix main jet and therefore would have to be increase in size to compensate for the lesser fuel octane rating
I reckon your on the right track here Dave, the modern efi engine has the anti knock sensors and oxygen sensors that change the ignition timing and fuel delivery/ mixtures accordingly, therefore no illeffects.
Matt Berry Motorsports...air cooled advice, repairs and mods Ph 0408 704 662
OFF-ROAD,CIRCUIT,DRAG,STREET,ENDURANCE
ancientbugger wrote:Don't forget that in Brazil they use high level ethanol fuel as they are a major producer AND they still run tons of old VWs on it.
they also use different jet and valve sizes to compensate
