Just wondering what peoples opinions are on the issue of what year a car is. The model year system introduced by VW in 1955 has created a situation where a car can technically be 2 different years. This was done to align with the US system at the time. For 7 months of production, the year model and construction date will be the same, however for the August to December production the construction date will be a year early. However it creates the situation where if a car is described as a particular year, and it is not qualified whether it is model year of construction date - what is you opinion as to the what the year should be assumed to be???
i.e. if there is a 55 for sale, should it be a 55 year model or a 55 construction date?
(This is my first attempt at a poll, please be gentle)
1955 model beetles were made between 1st January and 30th July 1955
1956 model beetles were made between 1st August 1955 and 30th July 1956
and after that the Model year starts at 1st August the Preceding year
ie: 1968 Model beetles were all made between 1st August
1967 and 31st July 1968
from 1955
the changes were made during the summer holidays at the factory in July-August
so when the factory started back up the changes had been made...
naturally they used up all the bits already made before starting using the new parts...
Lee
PS: VW model years were always used to date a beetle -however, there are many books about Now that show the changes made each year and list the cars by Year made NOT by VW model year so things have been messed up a bit... IMHO...
but then I've only been into beetles since 1960.. Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
Hi Lee,
In fact it gets even more complicated than that. The change-over from calendar year to model year (ie 'factory' year) in 1955 only applies to US-market VWs, not European models, or the ones sold in Australia. Almost all the 'VW enthusiast books' you buy contain US-spec data, which is not universal.
European-spec Beetles didn't move from calendar year to US-style August 'model year' until 1960.
As well, new-year improvements were not all made in one hit. Improved parts could be introduced at any time over the year. Thus it's possible to find cars with a mixture of year parts on them - eg. a 1964 Beetles with a 1963 number plate light etc.
The very best source for all data on what changes were made, and when, is in the book 'Kafer Eine Dokumentation', by Etzold. The English version is well worth finding, but it's out of print now. It comes up on Ebay every now and then (it's Vol 1 of 3 that has the manufacturing data). But it only applies to German-made VWs.
As for Australia, after June 1954 our VWs were locally made from CKD kits, which had an increasing amount of Australian-made content. We moved from CKD assembly to full manufacture in 1959. Australian VWs had no specific 'cut-off' for model year, as they did in Germany. Our 'new models' tended to come out in February each year, not the preceeding August. The exception was the '1962-and-a-half', which came out half-way through 1962.
The chassis number will tell you when the car was made, but not necessarily what year model it is.
Modern VWs (post 1980) have world-standard VIN codes that are universal.
Yes you're right, I presume that Canada-spec VWs, for example, would be the same (or very similar) as US-spec.
But yes, not Australian ones. My point was to take overseas data with a grain of salt when you consider VWs sold in Australia. By all means look at the chassis number, which will tell you when it was made, but not necessarily what 'year model' it is.
Yes,
Well all of My info comes from reading UK & US written books ...
I don't know if ALL the changes were ever applied to Australian built beetles...
like a bush or pin or bolt size changed or the length of it changed..?
where books can tell You when this happened in the VW Factory..
Quote: small number plate lamp on a 1964 beetle
YIKES : all those 1963 beetles I have seen may have been actually 1964 models....
My knowledge of beetles is shattered....
I might think of going to Minis.... lol
LEE
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
Wow, there you go! Excellent info, thanks, I don't have any such detailed documentation for Aussie VWs.
Which brings us back to the original question - manufacture year or model year? What would make a '1964' Australian Beetle? Would you use the Euro-style chassis numbers (Aug '63 to July '64)? Or would you use whatever chassis numbers were locally made from 1 January 1964 to 31 December 1964? Or do we only count the cars made with the recognised '1964' changes, such as the wide licence plate and wide front blinkers - ie after March 1964, up to some time in 1965 when the '65 changes (like the roll-top front seats) came in?
I think I'll stick with the published chassis numbers - #5 677 119 to #6 502 399, even though (in Australia) half of them would actually look like a '63.
I also think that sticking with the chassis numbers is probably the only practical method with other models, like the Type 2 and 3, whose detail changes from month to month weren't documented as well as they were for Beetles.
its an annoying situation and can really play havoc when ordering parts with some of them
for example my white Lbug falls into the category
its a 9/74 so it has all the features of early 74s like blinkers still on the guards, twin rail seats and worm/roller steering
but cos its after august and was bought new in Jan 75 it was classed by vw as a 75Lbug even tho they have bumper blinkers, 3 point seats and rack and pinion steering
alot of ppl with 73 Lbugs get caught out by the late year suspension change from 3 bolt to 2 bolt too
it happened mid 73 in the US but was very late 73 here
i assume while they used up the surplus parts here
in end of 70 when 1500s were replaced by superbugs
i had 2 parts bugs once
one was the last of the 1500s built in 12/70 and the other was the first of the superbugs built in 1/71
interesting thing with the 1500 was it had the 71 on flow thro dash vents but not the side rear bannana vents
wish i could have saved it being unique but it was to far gone and mate cut it up to build a bon trike out of
on the 63/4 number plate light changes when did they change the engine lid pressing from the 58 style that flared above the numberplate light to the later version that didn't flare but still had the narrow numberplate housing? i always thought that that was a 64 only thing.
Quite right Joel, since VWs were assembled in Melbourne (from a mix of imported CKD parts AND locally-made components), we certainly would have got left-over parts from elsewhere. That last Aussie 1500 Beetle sounds amazing - a real bitza. The Aussie '76 Beetle is another example - left-over 1300 pans, body-shells and front-ends (but with disc brakes!), mated to left-over 1600 Superbug engines and gearboxes! But better than anything they got in the US.
Chassis numbers are the most useful tool to date your VW, but may not be the best thing to use when you buy parts from OS. The best example is window rubbers for Aussie '65-67 Beetles. Don't buy US-Euro '65-67 rubbers as they won't fit. You have to buy pre-'64 as Australia kept the earlier body shell.
Henry, I could be wrong but I think the engine lid stamping is the same from '58 to '67; only the mounting holes were changed for the wider light in '64. Did the last '67 Aussies have a push button lock rather than the T-handle? The '68 lid is completely different, with a flatter bottom, bigger bulge and no central ridge.
phil some 67 change over bugs had the push button decklid catch but ive only seen a handfull
the 58 to early 64 decklids are the same but the 64 on ones apart from having the wider number plate light housing also have a different center rib
this one came off an old 59 wreck, the center rib that runs down to the number plate light, the way it curls out at the bottom doesnt happen on 64 on decklids cos of the wider housing
The push button engine cover lock -
I cannot remember seeing One of those back in the 60s..
and i used to check out every beetle i saw back then...
You had to be quick as there a lot of them... lol
but My Son has a few covers with those push button locks
they were used on the german made 1967 beetles made for the USA market ,along with towel rail bumpers in which the top of the inner bars were sloped Downwards
so they wouldn't hit the last of the Long engine lids..
the catch on the body for those push button locks was screwed to the body..
Lee
Aussie - rear towel rail bumpers..
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
unfortunately it's 500km away so i can't photograph it, but i have an engine lid with the early style light hole/stud holes but the later pressing. the car it came off was a real bitsa so i couldn't get a date from it (aka pre 56 pan, 4 tab hood, 62+ shell, 61 tail lights and 58/9? door trims).
this is a german big window bug but the push button decklid is the same as the last aussie built 67 change over bugs
ive only ever seen 3 of them tho and theres plenty of 67s around so thats saying somethign
Thanks guys for the clarification on the deck lid pressing. And the deck lid is only one local example - no wonder new VW enthusiasts with Aussie-made VWs get confused when they read US or UK-based VW books !
I guess we ought to stick to chassis numbers to determine the year of manufacture, and hence the 'year model', rather than looking for visual clues from lights, bumpers etc.
I know that some Americans have blown their minds when they've come across a '66 or '67 Aussie Beetle with a '19*' chassis number prefix - all their books say that the chassis number should be '11*' !
That's amazing!
According to my references, a 1964 Type 2 should have chassis numbers between 1 144 282 and 1 328 271. Then the change to the 2n5 nnn nnn chassis numbers for 1965, which as we've already determined, came in in Australia in the February rather than the previous August.
Looks like there was a fantastic mix of old and new parts being screwed together at Clayton. Does this mean that your Type 26 (pickup) and Type 21 (van) were made from older 1964 stampings in early 1965? The numbers are getting close to the end of the '1964' run. And that the other van and the Type 22 (microbus) were made from newer 1965 stampings? (only 6,000 into the new run). I suppose that makes sense, if they wanted to use up the parts they already had, and minimise wastage.
Perhaps we can go further and say that chassis numbers, for Aussie VWs, are only a guide !
btw this car
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=71157 has one of the deck lids i was talking about.
both the above theories sound believable to me. vwa must have been allocated blocks of chassis/engine numbers for local production as most of our no's fit into the standard vw system but don't double up with production from other countries. though a car takes up a lot of space to store. we need to find someone who worked at clayton stamping chassis no's and can tell us the rules/system they had to follow.
a stupid question. were single cabs/double doors 100% locally built or where they ckd/partially ckd? (yes i know our high roof singlecabs were different to the rest of the world)
other countries are far worse than oz for bastard vws
brazil and south africa are classics like the south african Lbug that isnt an Lbug- has the windscreen and dash of one but the front end is king pin and bonnet is bastard to suit
or brazillian kombis
ok ppl this beleive it or not is actually a brazillian
1975 kombi......
brasil used split screen bodies all the way up 76
See thats why other makers are cleva! A VB commodore is a VB commodore no matter what year it rooled out of the factory gate. There is no confusion..
yeah wouldnt wanna confuse the bogans
