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andrewl Learner Dubber

16 posts · joined May 2006 ·

#667940
Hi all,

I am currently researching a VW based kit car project. I will probably go with a Eureka but am looking at a couple of other options. My problem is I do not know a lot about air cooled engines. I could go water cooled but this does introduce a whole set issues about locating and installing the cooling system. I am happy to do this but what I am weighing up is the options available. What I would like to know is with a stock 1600 VW engine is it possible to get reliable and drivable power in the 130 to 150BHP range. The next question is if that is possible what is the likely cost to achieve this power range. I would prefer to stay naturally aspirated because forced induction will bring its own set of issues.

Andrew

bond Veteran Volks Folk

2,456 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·

#667968
buy a subaru ej20 or 22 conversion kit from custom vee dub in brisbane - site sponsor also. am pretty sure they do kits with everything you need. plenty of room in the back of a eureka for it. mick (sinecure) on here has a dbr sabre kit car with an EA81 conversion that goes like the clappers.

if you want reliability, less maintainence and overall cost effectiveness that is.... don't think you can achieve reliablity out of a stock 1600 if you want to get 150hp out of it.... unless you go forced induction... then $ start to add up.... talk with the boys at custom.

nick

Sides Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·

#667969
Stock 1600 giving 130-150hp - nope - no chance.

Sure you can up the capacity on a Type1 engine (that's what the basic design/layout of a stock 1600 aircooled engine is known as) and get there, but it's not even close to stock and can cost quite a few $$$ to build one that will last. 1916cc is a popular choice amongst hillclimb'ers, and they're usually good for somewhere in the 110-130 hp at the wheels. You can go up from there still to say 2276 or 2332 and get up to maybe 160-170hp, with more $$$ still of course.

Type IV would be another option - that's what 1800 and 2 liter Kombi motor's are known as - and it's common for them to go out to 2.4 liter and get very good power. Still aircooled, though cost I think would be about the same as a Type 1.

What you're aiming at is A LOT of power in a very light car... for example 160'ish hp at the wheels in a beetle weighing 700'ish kg runs into the 11 second range down the quarter. That's SERIOUS fast - a lot faster than any Ford or Holden - but can guarantee that even 100hp in car as light as a Eureka will put a big smile on your face.
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps

My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners

bond Veteran Volks Folk

2,456 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·

#667970
dave - my type 4 build is killing me financially - in hindsight i doubt the benefit will exceed the cost.

if i hadnt already incurred a good $6k in sunk costs i personally would have looked at alternatives....

nick

Sides Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined May 2007 ·

#667971
Yikes - OK - take back what I said about the cost to do a Type IV then !!!

What Bond says is right about subi engines I reckon - I'm a bit too much of a purist to put one in a Beetle, but for Eureka or some other kit-car, sure - why not. Subi's are relatively cheap, parts are easily available, most of the solutions to conversion issues are known and they give good, reliable power.... and being a flat four they even sound right !!!
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps

My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners

bond Veteran Volks Folk

2,456 posts · joined Jul 2003 ·

#667972
agreed. i was a little too much purist to do the same hence went the type 4 option 🤪

live and learn.

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·

#668029
andrewl why do you think you need 130-150hp ?

I've driven a eureka (for a weekend) with around 90hp at the wheels and it was still pulling at close to 180kph. Acceleration was quicker than 90% of the cars on the road today.

The eureka is light and aerodynamic, so big HP isn't needed to make the car perform.


trickysimon 100km/h is only 9 seconds away

1,473 posts · joined Dec 2007 ·

#668050
Craig Torrens wrote:andrewl why do you think you need 130-150hp ?

I've driven a eureka (for a weekend) with around 90hp at the wheels and it was still pulling at close to 180kph. Acceleration was quicker than 90% of the cars on the road today.

The eureka is light and aerodynamic, so big HP isn't needed to make the car perform.
I want one!!!!!

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 ·

#668092
u ever seen one?

whilst there one of the better looking kit cars out there theyre still got an ugly arse no matter what tail lights u use...


andrewl Learner Dubber

16 posts · joined May 2006 ·

#668171
Thanks for the feedback guys. I thought that might be the answer.

Craig I think you are probably right 150 is not necessary but I wanted to know the general view on whether it is achievable. So that leads to the next question. Is 90-100 achievable?

Joel what can I say other than each to their own.

barls Administrator Causer of Chaos and Mayhem

9,473 posts · joined Jun 2004 ·

#668185
the stock t4 2L is 90hp so its easy.
“We all pay for life with death, so everything in between should be free.” Bill Hicks
the chaos project - click me

DUB58 Commited Dubber

63 posts · joined Aug 2007 ·

#668655
andrewl wrote:Thanks for the feedback guys. I thought that might be the answer.

Craig I think you are probably right 150 is not necessary but I wanted to know the general view on whether it is achievable. So that leads to the next question. Is 90-100 achievable?

Joel what can I say other than each to their own.

Get your 1600 and punch it out to 1916 (cheaper than a stroker) with the right cam, heads, exaust and carbs you will easily get your 100hp+

Like I keep saying its better to beat someone from a set of lights with an aircooled engine, should I say more fullfilling than any other engine you could what to put in the back of your car!!!😬
If you drive an aircooled Volkswagen be proud of it and leave the aircooled engine in it!!!

'58 Bug 36hp, 70k original miles + as straight as a die!

andrewl Learner Dubber

16 posts · joined May 2006 ·

#668966
I agree sounds like the way to go. Any idea of the ballpark cost of this

vassy66T1 Wow ... are U reading this?

2,120 posts · joined Jun 2003 ·

#668983
$5-6000 is a realistic budget that should get you what you want and maybe a little more.
Talk to Matberry ... he can point you in the right direction.