Improved Production

michael1968 Learner Dubber

3 posts · joined Dec 2008 · 2 Dec 2008, 6:04 pm

#682685

Hello All,
First post in this forum but have been reading about it for a while.

I'm planning building a bug to run in the improved production (3J) class in some NSW hill climbs. I wont be able to start for at least 2 years though, I'm currently living/working in Shanghai, not many ACVW's here. So for now it's a plan.
I figure I'll start out slow and work on the suspension/my driving before I build a proper race engine. I've got about a car and a halfs worth of beelte parts in my parents shed.

I've got a few specific questions about the regs in the class and was hoping I might get some answers from some of you guys running in that class.

1. What about swing axle to IRS conversions? Do you need to run a car already with IRS, can you swap the pan?

2. Is it legal to run the 'Kaffer Bar' type setups?

3. Are any of your race cars road registered? Or do you trailer them?

...I'm sure I'll think of more later. Thanks.

colin Fahrvergnugen

984 posts · joined Mar 2007 · 2 Dec 2008, 7:53 pm

#682719

Gday michael.
Can you swap rear suspension? Pretty sure you can , i believe suspension is free check at cams website for confirmation.
Kaffer type bars, yes they are ok
Rego? My car is not registered but i used to drive it to and from events. So choice is yours, i believe Greg Ward still drives his car to events.

Cheers Col

michael1968 Learner Dubber

3 posts · joined Dec 2008 · 3 Dec 2008, 5:55 pm

#682876

Thanks Col, I've read over the rules a few times but there are a few things that aren't quite clear.

Since the engine is 'free', except the VW sourced flat 4 block, is anyone runing a TIV or even a water cooled in this class?

Brian Officially Full-On Dubber

263 posts · joined Jun 2007 · 3 Dec 2008, 6:41 pm

#682888

U can use a type 4 , don't know about a water cooled , a golf turbo motor might be interesting

bat69 There is no status

791 posts · joined Apr 2005 · 3 Dec 2008, 6:56 pm

#682891

Dont quote me though but I dont think you can use a T4 engine as it does not actually qualify as the donor engine has to be from a passenger sedan/car from the same manufactor. A T4 engine from a kombie is not a passenger car and its classified as a commercial vehicle. As far as a golf turbo goes, the engine has to be the same configuration ie. flat four, in line etc..best to check the regs for a 100% qualified answer though.

White Knuckle Racing Team [/i]
"Drive it like dirt"

Sides Veteran Volks Folk

2,220 posts · joined May 2007 · 3 Dec 2008, 7:09 pm

#682896

IRS conversion... hmm... not sure... but if the conversion is done well, how could anyone tell it wasn't a semi-auto converted to manual ??? Pan swap would be fine, since the chassis number IS the car so you're actually swapping the body not the pan.

Kafer bars - yup - definitely OK - and definitely worth having.

Rego - although my car is fully registered I still usually trailer it to and from events. Call me soft, but a 40km drive each way in a VERY loud car with no sound proofing or air con... not really my idea of fun !!!

On the different engine setups... Golf is definitely out like bat69 says, but as for Type IV's... well, didn't the 411/412 have Type IV engines ???

VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps

My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI - http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners

Brian Officially Full-On Dubber

263 posts · joined Jun 2007 · 3 Dec 2008, 8:06 pm

#682911

yep type 4 is OK , from 411 thats why they call em type 4

amazeer Bishop of Volkswagenism

3,029 posts · joined Nov 2005 · 3 Dec 2008, 9:27 pm

#682930

bat69 wrote:Dont quote me though but I dont think you can use a T4 engine as it does not actually qualify as the donor engine has to be from a passenger sedan/car from the same manufactor. A T4 engine from a kombie is not a passenger car and its classified as a commercial vehicle. As far as a golf turbo goes, the engine has to be the same configuration ie. flat four, in line etc..best to check the regs for a 100% qualified answer though.

That would be open to interpretation of the rules on the day. 10 years ago you would have been 100% correct as commercial vehicles were specifically excluded. Utes and vans had to run in formula libre! Now its pretty much either vehicles listed as touring cars with FIA, or cars having sold over 200 from a dealer network in Australia. When the rule was changed I was able to run my kombi in other classes wherever I took it, but I reckon if you came across a scrutineer who reads it differently then you could be in trouble. Is a kombi a car? Is a type 4 on the FIA list? Were 200 sold in Australia through VW dealers? Its hair splitting and I dont think you would ever have trouble unless you are winning and someone else cant deal with it.

If on the off chance you got pulled up, your defence lawyer would say that the rule was changed 10 years ago to allow Holden to run utes in the 12 hour at Bathurst. Commercials are now cars too. You dont need much proof. How many SS utes do you see with cememnt mixers in the back. Not many. most have hard covers over the trays.

pete wood 23 Windows of Awesome

6,828 posts · joined Jan 2004 · 4 Dec 2008, 11:20 am

#683014

surely having the car log booked would help

"stoopid is stronger than axles"
http://drivingnotpolishing.blogspot.com.au/

colin Fahrvergnugen

984 posts · joined Mar 2007 · 4 Dec 2008, 4:02 pm

#683055

Had i quick look in the CAMS manuel i have and my understanding is that a type 4 motor would not qualify for improved production class as a vw beetle was not mass produced with that engine style.
I think that would put you into sports sedan class.
For a definate ruling you can contact CAMS and ask for a technical rep to give you advice.
You wouldn,t want to develop a type 4 motor to have it knocked back, best to check.

Cheers Col

amazeer Bishop of Volkswagenism

3,029 posts · joined Nov 2005 · 4 Dec 2008, 5:12 pm

#683067

naaah. Plenty of datto 1600's running around with FJ20's etc 3J.

The only sticking point is whether the type 4 engine is classed as a production car engine in Australia. I'm not convinced its the ideal choice anyway. More expensive to build, limited exhaust ports, extra weight hanging out behind the rear axle.

PAZZAN Wolfsburg Wizard

592 posts · joined Jan 2008 · 5 Dec 2008, 1:20 pm

#683212

WHY BUILD ONE WHEN i HAVE ONE READY TO GO AND ITS FOR SALE ..

michael1968 Learner Dubber

3 posts · joined Dec 2008 · 9 Dec 2008, 10:25 am

#683784

Interesting, I didn't even think about the TIV comming from a commercial vehicle. I wouldn't use it anyway because, as amazeer said, there is to much weight in it. A 66 x 98 = 1991cc engine would be interesting though

Thanks for all the replys guys.