Sorry to do a "cross post" but this has got us stumped....
http://www.vwkd.co.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?t=2494&start=0
ElusiveStranger Officially Full-On Dubber
330 posts · joined May 2006 ·
Anyone help out a Pommie please?
Stylieee Learner Dubber
12 posts · joined Jun 2007 ·
just to add to this (its my car). basically story so far:
ej20 turbo bug, rad in the front, using stock subaru header tank and an expansion bottle. heater matrix lines replaces with a single hose, looped from coolant mani to stat.
overheating caused by no coolant flow.
changed the stat.
new water pump/cambelt.
no blockages in any pipes/rad (can blow through all of them).
if i take the matrix feed hose off with the engine running, no water comes out (or it just dribbles a bit).
I've run it with no stat and its just the same.
have had head gasket suggested, but no other symptoms (no water in the exhaust, no creamy water/oil, no bubbles in the header).
can anyone help? I'm supposed to be racing this car in 2 weeks!
ej20 turbo bug, rad in the front, using stock subaru header tank and an expansion bottle. heater matrix lines replaces with a single hose, looped from coolant mani to stat.
overheating caused by no coolant flow.
changed the stat.
new water pump/cambelt.
no blockages in any pipes/rad (can blow through all of them).
if i take the matrix feed hose off with the engine running, no water comes out (or it just dribbles a bit).
I've run it with no stat and its just the same.
have had head gasket suggested, but no other symptoms (no water in the exhaust, no creamy water/oil, no bubbles in the header).
can anyone help? I'm supposed to be racing this car in 2 weeks!
ratbug aka toddy101
439 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·
Can you do a compression test?
Maybe it's just a persistent air lock, like just about everyone gets.
Maybe it's just a persistent air lock, like just about everyone gets.
Sharbuilt Beach buggy with Subaru 2L Turbo
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Thunderanch Riot with Subaru 2L Turbo
Manxter with FA20turbo
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OZ Towdster Keen to finish some projects
1,921 posts · joined Dec 2003 ·
What do you call the Matrix ................ Heater radiator ???? . Is the heater pipes plumbed in a loop back to each other with NO taps etc stopping flow continuisly
Don't let body work get in the way of real suspension travel
TheMiniMan Insano Dub Head
849 posts · joined Aug 2006 ·
Sounds just like an air lock to me
Stylieee Learner Dubber
12 posts · joined Jun 2007 ·
yeah me too, but have spent nearly 2 weeks bleeding etc and no change. just cant see how it could be a normal airlock when I've tried just about every way of bleeding it. also, would an airlock stop flow completely?? i can blow into every pipe and force water round the system (when the stats open, i can blow into the top rad hose and force water out of the rad, so all the way round).
yep matrix would be the heater rad, so yes, I've just got a single hose (with nothing else) going from the coolant manifold to the stat housing instead of a heater.
yep matrix would be the heater rad, so yes, I've just got a single hose (with nothing else) going from the coolant manifold to the stat housing instead of a heater.
GeorgeL Officially Full-On Dubber
231 posts · joined Feb 2006 ·
Is the water pump from Subaru or aftermarket? I've seen them with bad rotors.
The fact that it won't circulate with no thermostat in place indicates to me either a complete blockage (shop rag in pipe, air lock, etc.) somewhere or a bad pump
The fact that it won't circulate with no thermostat in place indicates to me either a complete blockage (shop rag in pipe, air lock, etc.) somewhere or a bad pump
Stylieee Learner Dubber
12 posts · joined Jun 2007 ·
yep, after the stat that was the next think i thought of, so its now also got a brand new water pump and cambelt too. unfortunately theres still no flow 🙁
i dont thing its a blockage, as i can blow into all of the pipes no problem. would the air lock have to be actually in the water pump for it to completely stop circulation?
i ran it earlier today, feeding the water pump from the heater hose with a funnel in it, and it would suck the water up and feed the header tank... but then if i re-attach the hose the flow pretty much stops completely.😠
i dont thing its a blockage, as i can blow into all of the pipes no problem. would the air lock have to be actually in the water pump for it to completely stop circulation?
i ran it earlier today, feeding the water pump from the heater hose with a funnel in it, and it would suck the water up and feed the header tank... but then if i re-attach the hose the flow pretty much stops completely.😠
Stylieee Learner Dubber
12 posts · joined Jun 2007 ·
sorry, misread your post - pump is aftermarket, but from a reputable subaru specialist - and i compared it to the subaru one that came off and it was at least as good. rotor was fine and span very smoothly.
1303Steve Scirocco Rare
8,650 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·
Hi
How high is your fill point, I assume thats your header tank?
I had a similar issue trying to bleed an air 2 water intercooler system on my old 1302, the only way I got around it was to put a garden hose fitting in the system before the pump, then I used the garden hose pressure to force air out of the system.
Steve
How high is your fill point, I assume thats your header tank?
I had a similar issue trying to bleed an air 2 water intercooler system on my old 1302, the only way I got around it was to put a garden hose fitting in the system before the pump, then I used the garden hose pressure to force air out of the system.
Steve
GeorgeL Officially Full-On Dubber
231 posts · joined Feb 2006 ·
All it takes is for the pump to go mostly dry and it will stop pumping. It's not a positive displacement type so air stops it dead. If there is a moderate air bubble in the system the coolant will flow until the bubble gets to the pump and then the pump will stop working. When the engine stops, the bubble goes back to its high point.Stylieee wrote:yep, after the stat that was the next think i thought of, so its now also got a brand new water pump and cambelt too. unfortunately theres still no flow 🙁
i dont thing its a blockage, as i can blow into all of the pipes no problem. would the air lock have to be actually in the water pump for it to completely stop circulation?
i ran it earlier today, feeding the water pump from the heater hose with a funnel in it, and it would suck the water up and feed the header tank... but then if i re-attach the hose the flow pretty much stops completely.😠
Do you have an air bleed valve on the top of the radiator? That can be very helpful.
ElusiveStranger Officially Full-On Dubber
330 posts · joined May 2006 ·
YES. If you have air at the pump it won't pump, fullstop.Stylieee wrote:i dont thing its a blockage, as i can blow into all of the pipes no problem. would the air lock have to be actually in the water pump for it to completely stop circulation?
Stylieee Learner Dubber
12 posts · joined Jun 2007 ·
high points are the header tank and the top of the rad. I've not got a bleed on the rad, so had been filling it up from the top of the rad (hose off) as well as from the header.
ratbug aka toddy101
439 posts · joined Jan 2003 ·
Some of the buggy guys who where having dramas forced the water in through a garden hose.
Sharbuilt Beach buggy with Subaru 2L Turbo
Thunderanch Riot with Subaru 2L Turbo
Manxter with FA20turbo
Click here for wiring looms
Thunderanch Riot with Subaru 2L Turbo
Manxter with FA20turbo
Click here for wiring looms
helbus Administrator Mad fabricator, paint and body
7,386 posts · joined Sep 2002 ·
I had the same problem with our bus when bleeding the under bus radiator. I took the hose of the bottom/ thermostat side of the engine, then cupped my hand over the end of the long radiator hose, then fed the garden hose with water running at full pressure up inside the radiator hose, with my hand still cupping the hose so the pressure water would only travel back up inside the radiator hose, then fed the garden hose all the way up inside the radiator hose until I hit the radiator metres away. All this time the pressure water from the garden hose was forcing water and filling any air locks and water was coming out the header tank reverse flow. Then I removed the garden hose, and as quick as lightening put the radiator hose back on the thermostat housing on the bottom of the engine. It worked perfect after that.
bigrudi Wolfsburg Wizard
401 posts · joined Apr 2005 ·
check the suction side hose on the pump inlet to make sure it is not colapsing when runing may need a coil spring inside the hose
Stylieee Learner Dubber
12 posts · joined Jun 2007 ·
Sorted! after 12 hours of work today, completely re-designing the cooling system, i now have a functional bug (well almost, still some other probs).
i'll post up some pics soon, but i modified the subaru header to accept 2 returns on the top (turbo and heater), and 2 feeds for the pump on the bottom, so its now a flow-through for both the turbo and the heater circuit. also i put a small t-piece into the top rad hose right by the rad, and ran a pipe back to the header tank... so in theory its self bleeding now (time will tell).
also, i did as they suggested on aussieveedubbers and filled the system using a hose shoved all the way down the bottom rad hose with the header cap off, and just flushed it for about 5 minutes. after that i still got LOTS of bubbles out of the header tank, so just goes to show how much of a pain it is to get the air out.
big thanks to everyone, your suggestions saved me from putting my "spare" engine in this weekend.... if i'd listened to the guys on the subaru forums id be stripping the motor down for a head gasket change right now. so thanks!
i'll post up some pics soon, but i modified the subaru header to accept 2 returns on the top (turbo and heater), and 2 feeds for the pump on the bottom, so its now a flow-through for both the turbo and the heater circuit. also i put a small t-piece into the top rad hose right by the rad, and ran a pipe back to the header tank... so in theory its self bleeding now (time will tell).
also, i did as they suggested on aussieveedubbers and filled the system using a hose shoved all the way down the bottom rad hose with the header cap off, and just flushed it for about 5 minutes. after that i still got LOTS of bubbles out of the header tank, so just goes to show how much of a pain it is to get the air out.
big thanks to everyone, your suggestions saved me from putting my "spare" engine in this weekend.... if i'd listened to the guys on the subaru forums id be stripping the motor down for a head gasket change right now. so thanks!