Hi guys.
Long time lurker, first time poster.
I own a historic formula vee so always something here worth reading.
Now my question......
I'm going to be using an old formula vee chassis to build a formula libre hillclimb car, as a test mule for a new chassis I'm finalizing.
Would like to use a 1600 for simplicity with the current configuration of the chassis.
I'm looking for good torque and reasonable power for hillclimbing.
Been reading alot about what others recommend, but still not coming to any conclusions.....
The car will be running without tinware, fan, generator etc, and the exhaust will be straight out. Nothing but a motor.... fuel and air in, yuck stuff and noise out.... simple. Extended sump and large oil cooler. Ducting will do the rest of the cooling at speed.
Fuel economy is irrelevant.....
Lets not go stoooopid with massive machining etc.... need to be able to replace parts quickly and easily when there is a failure. In other words, I need off the shelf items for everything on these motors. Building two.
Lots of other questions I could ask, but I'll leave it for further replies....
Thanks in advance.
🤘
http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=77051
take a look here, at some of the links in this thread,
theres a 1600DP rally motor, shows u all the specs of it, producing 110-120hp, but im guessing that takes a bit of work. but stock crank, stock cyl size. might be worth looking into.
just an idea newais
😀
Where abouts are you madpostie ???
At least up here in QLD formula libre gets a lot of motorbike engined cars... so LOTS of power for very small capacities in some very well thought out chassis. Take a look at the cars you're going to be running against in 1300-1600cc classes.... my gut feel is a 1600 would have to be VERY trick to compete.... easiest way to be sure would be to compare an FVee 1600's times to what the quick cars are running.
If it was me I'd be thinking go up a bit in capacity 1776 or even 1914/5/6... in such a light car that would be plenty of fun I reckon, and I don't think there'll be too many motorbike engined jobs in a 1600-2000cc class. The external dimensions of the engine are basically the same, so shouldn't need any changes to the chassis.
If you are determined to stay 1600 though, then consider going EFI and possibly even twin plug... should help with the torque.
VWDCQ vice pres & web dude - vwdcqinc.org.au
Join a car club - get car peeps
My toys
'70 Hillclimb Bug 'Jezebel' w/- Haltech EFI -
http://bit.ly/VwTNtQ
'60 KG Coupe - resto kinda started
01 New Beetle - gf's car, but I turn the spanners
twin plug won't do much for power in anythng under 92mm bore
BMW R65 LS
1967 1300 Deluxe
Swing-axles FTW
❗
Thanks guys.... great start.
Most of the bike powered cars are under 1300cc.
In Qld generally, there is no segmenting of classes due to field numbers.
Generally run as up to 1300cc and over 1301cc. This keeps the cycle power to the smaller class.
I'm planning on running in the NSW titles, in which there's only one car going for the championship in the 1301-2000cc class.
Plus, this is a stepping stone to the new chassis, and a larger supercharged donk.
I have high hopes, but I'll have a crack at Peter Gumley eventually.
His car runs a 490hp supercharged bored Kombi motor. Though I doubt there's much original Kombi left.
I forgot to add...... was wanting to use the 1600 as a base... have no problems going to 19 odd cc kits.
Want to keep it under the 2000cc mark for class, and use the 1600 base for simplicity in hooking it up to the current type 1 transverse mount box.
As long as the parts for the big bore kit are off the shelf, I don't care.
Taking that rally dub as an example, my calculations are showing a 10-18% increase in power over 4000 rpm with the fan parts removed. That doesnt include the generator either.
That would put approx output at between 130 and 140hp at between 5000 and 6000 rpm will a huge increase in torque lost from the fan. Thats perfect.
Considering this will go into a car with an approx dry weight of 250kg, that will do the job. Standard type 1 transverse mounted box will hold up to that for the time being.
That would all put the new car in V8 supercar power to weight territory, and well and truly competitive in its class.... I'll worry about heading towards Formula 1 power to weight later.....
OK. Have decided on the 94mm x 69mm combo, with thick wall cylinders.
Any comments on the best supplier for this kit?
Now need to look at carburetion....
Not going with FI as the motor runs directly of the battery as well. I don't think the FI would like the voltage variations cause by running directly of the battery. Oh and it aint a simple solution.
fast easy power ideal foe a hill climber is supercharging see joel's posts on the subject
it will be a low cost big gain stock 1600 10 lb bost equals 85-85 hp rear wheels and great torque cost depends on if you can uese a welder or know someone who can
do a serch blowing the bug worth a read
👍👍😂🙅🥷😬🤓
Have a look at the dyno section for different combos and power. I hate to admit it, but a bold in pobjoy motor may be the way to go....
Unless you want to most of the engine work yourself. A well set up 1915 should give 120 to 140 hp at the wheels, so about 145 to 165 hp at the fly wheel.....
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
A great program for dyno tuning and HP and all that is Excel Dyno it just runs off microsoft office excell and is realy good.
I've used Excel Dyno for the basics of what I was after. Very useful. Somewhat scary, but useful.
Imagine this motor is something weighing 300kg..... scary.... yet FUN!!!!
Rightio. Made the decision on power.... lots of expensive bits, and basically a completely new motor.
Should be good. Will be starting a new thread for the build, so you guys can see something a little different.
By the way.... the car I'm using is my avatar....
Cheers
After talking with Rod Penrose for an hour..... thanks for your time Rod by the way....
I've decided to take this project in a different direction.
Won't be using the car in my avatar, as we've just found the history after 18 months of searching!!!!
Thanks to Ian Lee at the HFVAA for his help.
Now going to be restoring the Vee to original specs for historic racing....
Building a complete new chassis similar to a formula ford layout with cradle to suit VW motor, and front mount to suit a lightened beam front.
Details to come.....
Sounds good madpostie
Keep it historic if it has some pedigree.
Hope to catch you round the traps somewhere.
