I am looking at going back to my roots with a beetle after 2 years of type 3 ownership. I have always had pre-67 beetles previously, but as the car I buy now will likely end up being driven by my daughter in the future, I am looking at the 70's models for the disc brakes etc.
Are there any reasons to go for or steer clear of the mcpherson strut cars which fall into this age bracket.
Any comments welcome, it would just be for normal city driving typically, no racing etc intended.
Any other tips of particular issues to look for would be appreciated as well.
Cheers
Angus
BizarreModeratorThe artist formerly known as blue74l
A well set up strut is a very nice drive. I have only ever owned strut cars.... but once I replaced the bushes got a decent wheel alingment the car was perfect.
I have no sympathy for my car, only the wallet that pays for it!
Go hard or go home!!!!
told me what I feared. trailing arm beam front ends are basically the worst suspension design you can get for a car that you want to go round corners. it puts the roll centre below ground centre paralell with the beam. I won't go into the reasons why it's bad (coz I forget at this moment), but just looking at a beam VW under durress mid corner you can tell they are second rate.
Now, having said that, there are people who've made it work, but the S/Lbug is so much a better place to start. To put struts in perspective, all WRC cars use strut front and rear ends. They race on real roads, tarmac and dirt. To give you an idea of the scope of this, when subaru designed the Impreza to win the WRC, they put Struts in it. And it won the WRC several times. What does that tell you? Struts rock. they are second only to A arms. They are also adjustable in just about every aspect.
So if you want a beam car, that's fine, but be aware, they are at best 1930s technology and show it on the limit. I know, coz I drive one and I've seriously contemplated converting my buggy over to struts... I still may.
Thanks for the comments. The handling side of it doesn't worry me much - I just putt around the place, and I'm used to driving ovals with dodgy brakes as well.
The purists comment is probably as much around the look - the strut cars have a more bulbous look about them at the front.
The C pillar rust is caused by using foam I think, not allowing any condensation to drain away? My old beetles used to have a bag of 'something' shoved up there as a noise suppressant. Is the foam removable?
I have heard comments around the shimmies - is replacing the bushes a big deal?
The foam just needs to be dug out
Painfull but can be done.
The shimmies fix can be easy to difficult
The bushing kit is about $75??
Getting some of the old ones out is also a pain - but a hammer and chisel fixes that.
The new ones are 2 piece and hjust push in from either side
You may as well do the ball joints while you are at it - but that is probally the dearest part
Biggest problem is the steering box
They are NLA
If the box is notchy look for another one
A good 2nd hand one will be at least $250
The pick of the bunck is a 1975L bug with rack and pinion
There's no doubt that struts are better than beams for racing. The serious German 'Kafer Cup' racers always use Superbugs, fitted with souped up Type 4 engines and many Porsche bits. They usually use Golf GTI front struts. The best cars are faster around a circuit than a Porsche 911 GT3, but the serious guys spend 100,000 Euro or more. Beam fronts are still used in Baja-style racing to some extent, but are slowly being superceded by modern custom-built setups.
But that's racing - you want one for the street, for your daughter. In this case, I would suggest that the front end design isn't the important criteria. It would be getting a Beetle with 12 volts, safety steering column, and IRS and front disc brakes. That means either the Superbug S (flat screen) or Superbug L (curved screen), or the '76 1600. The 1300s sold alongside the Superbugs ('71-75) are good little runabouts, but they had front drums and rear swing axles. Still good for daily commuting, but just not as good as the Supers.
There are more Supers around than the '76s, as the 1600 '76 (beam, disks, IRS) was one-year only (actually they were only made for 7 months). Both are fine for what you want, assuming you can find a good one.
Another possibility is the '68-'70 1500 semi-auto, which also had front disks and rear IRS. But getting old now, and you may not want a semi-auto. Harder to find too.
Craig Torrens6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Phil74Camper wrote:Another possibility is the '68-'70 1500 semi-auto, which also had front disks and rear IRS. But getting old now, and you may not want a semi-auto. Harder to find too.
Semi autos are about and handle great....
they pop up for sale fairly regular on ebay etc....
I didn't think there were that many about...
I do prefer the torsion bar front end...
My beetle drives like a new one... everything is new so it should.. lol
but surprises Me how well it keeps up with city traffic...
even overtakes them...lol
{You can tell I don't go to the city very often] lol..😎
LEE
[and i like torsion bars] I love to grease them every few months.... lol
Get the early for yourself and buy your daughter a new Beetle:lol
No seriously, you want your daughter in the safest ride possible. I don't think it is just a matter of front end.
The later models (1302 1303) have a few more safety features. Still not the safest car around but its better that not.
Love the remark about the Zephyr as I remember sitting in one going down a main road in London when one after the other the tops of the struts appeared through the bonnet as the front of the car crashed to the ground😂 As for struts vs beam in a beetle for on road to me it doesn't make a difference (my preference that is) I always feel the beam feels much more solid and can be made to handle with a few well chosen parts again it would be the rear suspension that would possibly swing it for me for the street going for double jointed rear.Don't forget discs are available for both/
I got a 71 manual that had been converted from an auto.
So ive got beam front end, irs and disc brakes.
The lady i bought it off didnt mention the discs or the conversion, so dont just presume its what they say, check it all out yourself.
68AutoBugBeetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --
Bizarre wrote:Another factor to consider along with the brakes is IRS
That limits your choice to 2 supers ( S 1302 and L 1303) Macpherson strut beetles or the 1976 beam beetle
Both of the cars have rust issues with foam in the back C pillar bit.
Hi
My 1968 semi auto beetle came with disc brakes and IRS rear suspension..
the semi autos were the first beetles to have IRS
Mine drives like a dream...
My Wife complains of the heavy steering... and doing a U turn in a street does take some muscles unless the road is wet... lol
or You have much more than the recommended 18 PSI in the front tyres...
Early beetles; No flow thru ventilation -- so NO rust...
although the material VW used from about 1970 did suck in condensation which caused Very Bad Rust problems around the rear window..... after a long period of time...
Worse if the car was left out in the weather...
I did own a 1971 1392S Superbug back in the 70s...
and had no problems... replaced it with a late type 3 variant
which i had for over 10 years...
and drove from perth Melb Bris Syd etc..
sold it without any rust...
Struts are only as strong as the metal they are bolted to..
71-BEETLE-SEDAN wrote:I got a 71 manual that had been converted from an auto.
So ive got beam front end, irs and disc brakes.
The lady i bought it off didnt mention the discs or the conversion, so dont just presume its what they say, check it all out yourself.
its unusual for auto beetles to be NON Supers in 1971...??
what is your chassis number???
Years ago many auto beetle chassis were used in early and late manual bodies so they had IRS rear end...
in the USA - ALL Beetles sold from 1969> had IRS rear suspension.
but NO beetle sold in the USA ever had disc brakes ....
ODD but True...
a 1971 NON Super beetle in Australia had torsion bar front suspension drum brakes and swing rear axles..
most other things were the same as the supers..
these were sold in Australia into 1974..
the 1976 Beetle was a NON Super...
but had Disc brakes and IRS rear suspension..
71-BEETLE-SEDAN wrote:My chassis number is 102 9908 73*.
Its a standard not a super
Hi,
Yes I realize You have a NON Super beetle...
but that chassis number doesn't exist...
not in My records anyway...
so, can You check the number again for Me?
a 1972 chassis number = 112 2000 000 to 112 3200 000
these were beetles made between 1st AUG 71 to 31 July 72
a 1971 chassis number= 111 2000 001 to 111 3200 000
these were made between 1st AUG 1970 to 31st July 1971
can You also check the plate behind the spare wheel in the front... should have made in western Germany on it..
also typ: etc...
also... can You check to see if Your beetle has a clutch tube
sticking out the back of the chassis..
[these are very rare but some autos were made on manual chassis]
I don't know what chassis numbers were used for type1 Karmann Made beetles. Cabriolet beetle & Ghia..
as these were also made in automatics..
If that chassis number is correct... I'll be busy reading.. lol
As far as i know, When VW Germany switched to SUPERS in late 1970 for 1971 VW model year...
all Automatics were SUPERS... from then on...
but nothing is impossible... with VW...
cheers
LEE
PS: MY Son has a 1956 beetle with a 1968 auto chassis.. Lee
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
I rekon if you had a 60 km front ender into a brick wall you would be pretty rooted in either :P
As long as you have a collapsible steering wheel you will definitely be better off.
Handling wise... well, she ain't racing it! She ain't competing and attempting tight corners at 100ks...
or is she a rev head :P?
Speed limits and recommended corner speed signs take account the worst of vehicles, ie: heavy rolling semi trailers etc.
Best bet is get something thats mechanically sound and least rust that will last, and the extra biccies put to defensive driving lessons 👍 and teaching her to be responsible.
By the way, you can apparently bolt on a collapsable steering column form the later 1500 bugs onto 6 volt veedub models i believe (can someone back me up?). SO if you wanted early curves with the 'extra' safety... etc.
ive had 4 standards and heaps of supers, both S and L and i could never go back to a beam front end now
the ride difference really is night and day
theres a very good reason nearly all passenger cars made today are still running the same mcpherson strut front end that supers have
its the same reason all the serious germanlook bugs are made on supers and usually later Lbugs as they have alot better aerodynamic characteristics than flat screen bugs
the pictures of 71-BEETLE-SEDANs beetle show its one of the cross over 1500 beetles
i had one the same dated 12/70 which was during the superbug transition
they have the 5 dash vents of the later flow through system but no rear crescent vents or inside backwindow slots
68AutoBugBeetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --
Just look underneath at the end of the tunnel...
the clutch tube would be on the LHS of the tunnel...
there would only be a few inches showing..
110 2000 001 made after 1st august 1969 110 2990 873
so its a 1970 VW model year which means it was an auto beetle
NON Super...
so it was probably an automatic beetle with IRS and front Disc brakes.
its a shame it was converted to manual...
I don't think it would have a clutch tube..??
Joel,
My beetle is lowered at the front , and at first the suspension was rock hard... but now its OK...
changed the adjustment on the adjusters and changed the shock absorbers...
all ball joints and tie rod ends [steering damper] are New...
but You do feel BIG bumps....
but I don't think I can go any softer or harder in the front end..??
I'm not running a sway bar at present but the car handles really great..
do You know if rack & pinion was ever on USA beetles...
as the 1303S steering boxes are fetching big money over there..
cheers
LEE
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---
Lee, the 1303s in the US, UK etc were rack and pinion after early 75
unfortunatley by then it was mainly only cabriolets as hardtops '03s stopped in most countries in 76
even here super steering boxes are getting hard to get and expensive
ive got a 75L rack and pinion to put in mine....one day
you have to find that happy medium with lowered cars
too hard and you chip your teeth, too soft and the ride starts becoming unpredictable and body roll takes over in corners
