Crankshaft Endfloat

StenGuns Veteran Volks Folk

2,147 posts · joined Mar 2004 · 4 Aug 2009, 3:21 pm

#727354

I have run into a problem with the dyno tuning of my Type 1 EFI motor..
We are taking the signal off the crank pulley via a trigger wheel and magnetic sensor.. All pretty standard stuff..

Unfortunately, it seem the amount of endfloat is causing the signal to fluctuate.. We have taken steps to remedy this by moving the sensor around more so it takes it's signal more off the edge of the wheel.

I am a bit worried now though that the amount of endfloat I have will cause the engine (1916) to have a shorter life than it deserves..

So, what is the maximum endfloat I should be safe with on a 1916, EFI engine with balanced and counterweighted crank running a 110 engle cam.. I'm guessing the engine will be in the 110 - 130 HP range..

Thanks
Rob

Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l

12,785 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 4 Aug 2009, 4:06 pm

#727359

.006" would be maximum

Futue te ipsum!!!

grumble Son of Jim - Creator of Good

2,672 posts · joined Jun 2008 · 4 Aug 2009, 9:28 pm

#727465

.003-.005"is recommended,we usually try to keep to the lower end of the scale when initially adjusting.

chunks54 Slammed & Awesome Dubber

84 posts · joined Aug 2009 · 5 Aug 2009, 12:29 am

#727512

Its a kind of mix of the above two posts....

If you're setting it, you set it between the 0.003"-0.005" range, if you're measuring for wear the maximum is 0.006".

What kind of pulley are you using?

Happiness is a Hot VW.

1954 Bug, 2276/Turbo

Turbo lag - that split second when the other guy thinks he has a chance

StenGuns Veteran Volks Folk

2,147 posts · joined Mar 2004 · 5 Aug 2009, 4:32 pm

#727606

Well I've got big problems then.. I read the tech articles about OK up to .006 but thought with a larger than stock HP output I would be ok with more endfloat..
I've got in excess of .012
Looks like I will need to drop the engine out and re-shim... FAARK! Just when its looking good too

Bizarre Moderator The artist formerly known as blue74l

12,785 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 Aug 2009, 4:39 pm

#727609

Rob

was it incorrectly shimmed the first time??

To be 12 thou now ........ - just makes me ask 🙅

like it should never been set there first
just dont know if re-shimming is the answer

Futue te ipsum!!!

StenGuns Veteran Volks Folk

2,147 posts · joined Mar 2004 · 5 Aug 2009, 5:16 pm

#727614

Baz.. I have no idea to be honest.. The engine has less than 2000 k since complete re-build so I'm guessing that is the issue..
Either way, the only option is to take a look..

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 5 Aug 2009, 5:54 pm

#727621

the MAX is 0.009" if it was done correctly in the first place and all was good the usual tollance is 0.005 to 0.007"

I think u will find that the bearing thrust face in the crankcase may be worn and wasnt checked for correct size
this causes the bearing to float in the case and give you excessive end float

Take it back to your engine builder i think it will need a pull down and check

you CARNT fix by re shimming the case will need to be machined and a spacer or thick thrust bearing fitted to size

I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

chunks54 Slammed & Awesome Dubber

84 posts · joined Aug 2009 · 5 Aug 2009, 7:21 pm

#727642

Sten, a larger than stock output won't necessary allow you to run a greater clearance - when hi-po motors do this it is usually down to the fact that they may be intended for use on the qtr mile only (or largely at any rate) which would limit mileage they do and makes the measurement less critical - a touch on the higher side of the spec'd clearance in a motor that see's 8000rpm is better than not enough, due to the heat generated by high friction if the measurement is on the tight side at those rpms.

My tuppence - I would stick to factory specs if you intend to do any mileage in this.

Happiness is a Hot VW.

1954 Bug, 2276/Turbo

Turbo lag - that split second when the other guy thinks he has a chance

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 5 Aug 2009, 8:43 pm

#727666

hope the flywheel nut isn't coming undone !

StenGuns Veteran Volks Folk

2,147 posts · joined Mar 2004 · 5 Aug 2009, 8:58 pm

#727671

Already happened when I had it in the Bufori.. It came outafter about 100km

http://aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60409&page=3

"Quick update..
The 1916 is out.. Small matter of the flywheel coming loose and needs to be re-dowelled"

Craig Torrens wrote:hope the flywheel nut isn't coming undone !

StenGuns Veteran Volks Folk

2,147 posts · joined Mar 2004 · 5 Aug 2009, 9:26 pm

#727685

This is a component list from the build.. Note new case..

Fully rebuilt 1916 cc Type 1 motor
New Case - Brazilian
New Pistons and Barrels - Mahle 94mm
New bearings throughout
Hand ground counterwighted crank shaft - Powertune
Engle 110 camshaft
043 Heads.. Long reach spark plug.. Big inlet valve
Scat Lifters
Doghouse Oil Cooler

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 6 Aug 2009, 9:02 pm

#727936

have you spoken to your engine builder ?

P.s. with that cam and heads the HP range will be around the 70-80hp mark

StenGuns Veteran Volks Folk

2,147 posts · joined Mar 2004 · 25 Aug 2009, 2:24 pm

#731358

Is that all?
With EFI I was hoping for around 120HP..

Oh well.. I'll know tomorrow after dynotune..

Craig Torrens wrote:have you spoken to your engine builder ?

P.s. with that cam and heads the HP range will be around the 70-80hp mark

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 25 Aug 2009, 2:46 pm

#731361

so you got it soughted then ?

StenGuns Veteran Volks Folk

2,147 posts · joined Mar 2004 · 25 Aug 2009, 3:32 pm

#731366

No I haven't tackled the endfloat issue yet.. I want to get it back from the Tuners 1st (who have had it for weeks) and then take a look at the problem.. My guess is re-shiming.. Seeing the case is new I can't imagine what else it will be (or indeed how big the problem is until I get to look at it)

Engine was built about 3 years ago.. All new bits (except for the crankshaft). It has probably done under 1000k since.. One problem we did have is the gland nut came loose after about 100k.. Anycase.. 2nd guessing a bit until I get the car back and have a gander..

ian.mezz I never said, I could write or spell

3,913 posts · joined Sep 2004 · 25 Aug 2009, 4:09 pm

#731374

StenGuns wrote:Is that all?
With EFI I was hoping for around 120HP..

Oh well.. I'll know tomorrow after dynotune..

Craig Torrens wrote:have you spoken to your engine builder ?

P.s. with that cam and heads the HP range will be around the 70-80hp mark

I have A 2110 EFI with77 hp
rose has a 1916 69hp
we ran a pobjoy twin plug and it had about the same as roses.
if the sensor picks up on pully rotation, end float shouldn't matter.as the pick up magnet is normally as big as a five cent piece
good luck

😂🤪😂🤪😂
car forums. where a lot of peoples good intentions end up taking a good old car off the road forever never ever to see the road again. 🥲

Craig Torrens 6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion

8,040 posts · joined Jan 2003 · 10 Sep 2009, 1:26 pm

#734425

how did you go with the Dynotune ?