Have been doing a bit of research into the Type 4. Seems the European boys like them and seem to get good HP with durability. Who in the forum has them and whats the experience? It might be that building a series of Type 1's is just as cost effective as 1 solid Type 4. Any thoughts? Terry
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ive got one that ive had and its been about 4 years since its last rebuilt and grumble has fitted a few as well.
richard at vforce is the guy to talk to about the conversion in sydney.
The T4 is a much stronger unit than the T1's. If you modify a T4 it will outlast a modded T1 by a long shot. The downside to the T4 for modifying is the sharp turn of the exhaust port in the heads. I've heard it's a limiting factor but there are some companies out there that make custom heads with the ports in a better positiona nd then you just need the custom exhaust to go with the heads 🙂
The other thing is having to modify T1 cooling for the T4. the volkszone forum in the UK has a fair few things about this on there.
here's a pic of what goes into a sharpbuilt kit, i also have tuned length extractors to suit oval port exhaust, 1 5/8 pipe. Yeah biggest let down is the heads the square exhaust port heads have more meat to port. Easy way is use 1800 heads .
i started putting an 1800 in my bug a while back as i liked the concept and got hold of one cheap
theyre alot more robust engines and have most of the type1 faults worked out and outlive type1s by a long shot
the one i got had badly cracked heads which is a common problem and the case was very tired, by the time i fixed all that up, got an upright kit and exhaust made and put some decent carbs on i'd be double what a type1 with same HP would cost
you wouldnt go to the effort of the conversion then put crappy twin solexs back on, type4 weber/dell setups arent real common 2nd hand and are big $$ new
unless you do a shitload of KMs to reap the rewards of type4 longevity a type1 engine is alot more cost effective
that said if i was given the choice ovef the 2 type4 would win hands down
the sharp built kit is a good one there is only one problem with it as far as i have seen. that is it doesnt come with the bush for the fly wheel, he does sell them but im still waiting for mine to be sent to me and ive had the engine in now for 6 years. other than that mines a stock 2L with a mild cam from vforce. the only other part on my bug thats not stock is the exhaust, its a custom heaterbox arrangement with a custom header setup that has been built for the car.
it will cruise all day at 110 and overtakes up hills with better fuel economy than a stock 1600.
try clicking the chaos project link in my sig
Looks ok. I have met Richard so will have a yarn with him. Actually he built the 1776 I currently have.
Looks like a bit of work though - not exactly a drop in.
Is there a simpler way to do the exhaust - while I love the fully dual system Barls - and it is a work of art - I like the sound of the big single myself.
Thanks for all the comments - Type 1's and things for them I guess are just so readily available.
Do they make more horsepower for the same displacemet - i.e. more effecient? or are they just able to handle the bigger horsepower?
Terry
Smile - It confuses people😀
Today:
Aussie 69 IRS pan Brazilian curves
1916cc of Stans magic
Fat boy stainless extractors
Craig & Tims 3 bar stiffy
it is a single now richard built it earlier this year to replace the twin.
its all about percentage of modification. ok the t1 is 1600 and to bring it to 2100 is roughly a 25% modification while a t4 even at the 1800 is around 10% modification plus the case is stronger. its a different style of power as mine just has torque all the way through the band.
I see your point - I will have a yarn with Richard and see what the damage is.
I like lazy kind of power - torque all the way through the power curve is exactly what I am thinking of Barls.
Perhaps I am getting old - but keeping an engine on the boil all the time irritates me now - man I must be getting old!
Smile - It confuses people😀
Today:
Aussie 69 IRS pan Brazilian curves
1916cc of Stans magic
Fat boy stainless extractors
Craig & Tims 3 bar stiffy
exactly how i wanted it. mines a cruiser not a race car. if you have a chat with richard mention that you have been talking to me as he is doing my next up grade as well but im keeping that quiet on here till it happens.
Oh -and thanks guys for all the comments. Joel and Klaus - nice to see the kit laid out like that. The more I look the more differences I see to the Type 1.
Lets see what happens.
I was talking to a very experienced VW dude yesterday - who said that I should wear out the Type 1 I have first - then go looking for the Type 4. So this leads me to my next question - or should this be a thread? -- has anyone simply put 1.4 ratio rockers on an essentially stock 1776 - and what is the result?
I don't of the cam grind - for arguements sake lets call it a an Engle 110. Terry
Smile - It confuses people😀
Today:
Aussie 69 IRS pan Brazilian curves
1916cc of Stans magic
Fat boy stainless extractors
Craig & Tims 3 bar stiffy
I have 1 in my ragtop i drove years ago, it was extremely reliable and the power was great, heaps of low down torque, it nearly lifted my front wheels in first, i had it chirping the wheels in every gear a few times when i had 13 inch wheels on, broke the exhuast off a few times(too low), i could wind it to the indicator mark on the speedo, around 90-100 m/p/h, the first engine was an 1800, the second was a 2ltr and it was crap compared to the 1800.
I built a 2.4 litre type 4 in the states last month it was 84x96 made 223hp 213tq at 5500rpm, with a dtm conversion kit. and there was no machining of case and only a little clearancing needed, lets see a type 1 do that. A type 4 engine has more room than a type 1 engine when put into a beetle. i also built a 1911cc type 4 for a friend in byron for his oval it fit nicely and plenty of room once installed.
This is my Volkswagen, there are many like it, but this one is mine. Without me my Volkswagen is useless, without my Volkswagen, I am useless.
61 Karmann Ghia 2110cc type1 w Los Panchito's
66 Deluxe Beetle 2270 type 4
10 Subaru WRX Impreza
A old Volksrestore customer has a 100+hp type IV in his beetle with a Porsche fan and nice custom exhaust, still going strong after 13 years.
I'm presently fitting a x offroad race 3 liter in a beetle. : )
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66deluxe wrote:I built a 2.4 litre type 4 in the states last month it was 84x96 made 223hp 213tq at 5500rpm, with a dtm conversion kit. and there was no machining of case and only a little clearancing needed, lets see a type 1 do that. A type 4 engine has more room than a type 1 engine when put into a beetle. i also built a 1911cc type 4 for a friend in byron for his oval it fit nicely and plenty of room once installed.
hey damo, just out of interest, how much would that 2.4 ltr engine cost to build??
I've got a 2 litre type 4 in my 68 beetle that I autocross. Twin 40 IDF webers, mild camshaft, otherwise stock. I've found my engine to be much more flexible than the stretched type 1's I've ridden in. There is more grunt than grip in second gear at least. I might be missing a little at the top end, but by then it's time for the next corner.
The engine also never seems to need any special attention between events. Also, unlike a big type 1 engine, I can reach around my carburettors!
You do need to strengthen the engine mounting forks though!
Second some of the above comments... you really have to be doing plenty of miles to start seeing a difference. However you can go BIG with the type 4 fairly easily. I dropped in a set of 103 JE pistons for 2366cc's and it went together well. With the newer alu cases though the Type 1's can be pretty sturdy - although the quality of the new alu. Type 1 cases is a mile apart frpm the Type 4 case, which really is a nice part. Thought about oxyboxer? A couple opf guys have got great results using the later watercooled cases (I don't have any direct experience with them though). Have a look on the shop talk forums, a great source of info for the Type 4 & oxyboxer.
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Craig Torrens6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
I spoke to the boys at VForce - as was suggested.
The numbers they mentioned were quite a bit more than I had planned to spend - so in honesty the $ counts me out on the Type4 I think - plus the mucking about.
There is no doubt that the Type4 is a good thing -
God only knows what a twin plug Type 4 would do!
Smile - It confuses people😀
Today:
Aussie 69 IRS pan Brazilian curves
1916cc of Stans magic
Fat boy stainless extractors
Craig & Tims 3 bar stiffy
Tomorrow
Cooookies
Better brakes
Craig Torrens6 times Australian, 7 times State Hillclimb Class Champion
Stans building me one at the moment !Its a long term project so it won't be finished for a while. 66mm stroke x 103mm bore, twin plugs and a feral cam ! Heads are my only probably as there's not very many cost affective options out there.
A type 4 motor is really a rejected porsche motor, so they are good just...expensive👍
