AVD EFI collaborative project

modulus · 2008-12-23T11:54:59+00:00

I am hugely impressed by the ambitious development projects being undertaken by some AVD members; a quick troll through the "Tech Talk" section will show some terrific work on everything from water-jacketed heads to big brakes and Kafer-cup bars. At the same time, as a software developer, I have also seen the success of open source software developpment projects where teams of developers, co-ordinated by the wonders of the Internet, develop projects which match or better those of conventionally-organised software developers. I believe that there is an opportunity for AVD to develop a reasonably-priced, high-performance EFI system for Type 1 motors as a joint, communal project. The result would be a fully-specified implementation package for converting a Type 1 motor to EFI for street use. The rest of this document is intended as a discussion paper for such a project. SCOPE: ELECTRONIC FUEL INJECTION FOR VW A/C TYPE I MOTORS ================================================== The scope needs to be both broad enough to capture the interest of a large base of VW enthusiasts, yet simultaneously narrow enough to deliver an implementable product in a reasonable time-frame. For these reasons I suggest that it should be: - electronic FI to accomodate high-performance variants and to achieve better daily-driver drivability - limited to Type I motors to get the largest interest base - designed for street use i.e. high-performance means excellent driveability - reasonably-priced, to appeal to the largest number of potential interested parties. DELIVERABLES =========== The project deliverables would include: - parts specifications, drawings, AutoCAD - supplier lists - build instructions - software such as fuel maps and other such materials as to make the implementation of EFI achievable for all Type 1 engine owners, with or without the help of specialist suppliers. COPYRIGHT ======== I believe that all material produced for the project should go under a copyright licence such as the GPL used for open software development, i.e. anyone contributing to the project should sign up to their contribution being managed as open-source, in order to avoid tears further down the track. This would not prevent commercial exploitation of the product, e.g. - a VW business offering implementations of the AVD EFI system (for profit) - a VW business offering parts of the AVD EFI for sale - a VW business taking the AVD EFI project and extending it with prorietary, copyright material, to the extent that this is allowed under the GPL. That is, the intent would not be to limit commercial opportunities, but to encourage them. Nevertheless, at any time any AVD member or other VW enthusiast could get a copy of the AVD EFI design for no charge and build an EFI system based on it without incurring licence fees (but see COSTS below). PROJECT STRUCTURE ================ The fact that the project would be a collaborative, open-source project does not mean that it would be anarchic or without structure. A suitable structure would be designed and "work parcels" created within that structure, suitable to allocation to an individual or work-group. An outline structure example follows: Project Management - Coordination - Task description - Task allocation Hardware - Manifolds - Injectors - Throttle Body - AFM - Fuel Feed - Tank modifications - Swirl pot - Fuel pumps - Fuel & return lines - Pressure regulator - Rail - Distributor Firmware - ECU - Sensors - O2 - Crank position - CHT Software - Maps - Tuning & calibration Documentation - FAQs - Construction manuals - Tuning manuals - Website Fabrication - Fabrication techniques - Materials - Supply sources Testing & Tuning - Dyno testing - Road & track testing - endurance testing VARIANTS ======= The project, rather than resisting variations, should encourage both offshoot projects and alternate core approaches. The project does not necessarily need to actively support variants (there is likely to be plenty of work on the core project), but should welcome variants as strengthening and testing the core project's assumptions. Variants that I can readily imagine are: - Turbo version - Race-spec. version - Type IV variant - alternate ECUs - alternate injectors MEMBER CONTRIBUTIONS =================== As can be seen from the project structure, there is scope for individuals with a wide range of skills to contribute to the project. One risk is that the usual suspects (including people who are already doing similar, individual projects) end up doing all the heavy lifting. This would, in my opinion, be far from optimal project structure. The project is not essentially about "who can build the slickest injector manifold?", but rather "how can we make a reasonably-priced, high-performance AVD EFI system available to the maximum number of VW enthusiats?", a much more useful goal. COSTS ===== Obviously, a project such a this will incur some real costs (i.e. cost of materials, fabrication, dyno time etc.). Several options…

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 · 7 Jan 2009, 6:36 am

#687788

so whats the first objective

I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603

http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

modulus Veteran Volks Folk

2,009 posts · joined Jul 2003 · 7 Jan 2009, 10:08 am

#687833

vw54 wrote:so whats the first objective

The first five items are under way; once these are done we will have a basis for selectinbg a specific path or paths to follow:
1. Overall description of EFI system, with air-cooled VW specifics
2. Comparison of the candidate ECUs available
3. Comparison of other candidate components
4. Review of existing conversions esp. AVD members' cars
5. Development of budget for conversion.

For the first two items, there are early draft documents available at www.modulus.com.au/avdefi/, and any feedback on these would be appreciated.

hth

Peter Hill
1975 Type 2 Double Cab
modulus.com.au

Camo Custom Title Time!

1,936 posts · joined Oct 2007 · 16 Jan 2009, 7:53 pm

#689808

Just saw this, do you think this would help reduce cost and make things easier.

VW EFI parts - click here

Kev

I thought rebuilding a VW would be cheap - Shit I was wrong, just don't let the wife know !!!!

Click here for my (slowy) modded 1961 Beetle build.

Joel Now containing 100\% E-Wang

9,368 posts · joined Feb 2006 · 16 Jan 2009, 8:13 pm

#689821

the mexi EFI also needs a special alternator stand thats cast differently for runner clearance and the body needs clearancing for the injectors

i looked into this setup as a guy in town here has a complete new system he was selling but i found out theyre fine for stock motors but are bit restrictive on performance engines

modulus Veteran Volks Folk

2,009 posts · joined Jul 2003 · 16 Jan 2009, 8:19 pm

#689822

Hi Kev,
The Mexican end-castings are definitely a realistic option for a street EFI changeover. An alternative to the Mexican parts is e.g. custom parts such as these from CBPerformance:
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=321
which, at USD 113 are comparable with the cost of getting Mex. parts.

The three components which drive the overall cost of an EFI conversion are:
- purchase and/or fabrication of bits and pieces, throttle body, manifolds, pressure regulator, h-p pump, filter, lines, sensors etc. etc.
- cost of ECU and associated software
- tuning and dynamometer time.
These three cost centres seem to split about 1/3 each way. This relationship can be altered by e.g. spending more on O2 sensors (lambda probes) and more sophisticated ECUs, resulting in less or zero tuning and dynamometer time.

The cost and risk of an EFI conversion can best be minimised, IMHO, by working out what is essential and non-essential, and planning a sound way through the sea of information and opinion which is out there.

Thanks for the link, I'll add it to the list,

Peter Hill
1975 Type 2 Double Cab
modulus.com.au

eraser Fahrvergnugen

970 posts · joined Mar 2005 · 18 Oct 2009, 8:32 pm

#741630

just a quick question but how is everyone going with this?

What happens with the engines that need vacuum advance or similar.