Skip to content
Aussieveedubbers

Starter motor horrid noise thing again

0 likes
Share Share on Facebook Share on X Share on Reddit
Log in to reply

djnee Officially Full-On Dubber

341 posts · joined Mar 2009 ·

#742267
Ok,
Just changed my starter motor bush but my car still doesn't start first turn of the key (i got the 6v starter in 12v car grating noise)
i've read a few times about replacing the VW solenoid with a pre-EH Holden one, but i am curious as to what difference it makes as all a solenoid does is throw the pinion at the flywheel ain't it? Does it do it slower or something?
It May Never End

vw54 Administrator Always Waiting 4 Friday

16,723 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#742277
do you know if you havea 6v or 12V flywheel as theres a difference in the number of teeth

6V starters dont mesh too well in a 12V flywheel teeth
I read it on FACEBOOK so it must be true


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=91278&page=1#pid848630


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=63561&page=1#pid624099


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=4832&page=1#pid452603


http://forums.aussieveedubbers.com/viewtopic.php?tid=60650&page=1#pid574409

djnee Officially Full-On Dubber

341 posts · joined Mar 2009 ·

#742424
Ooooh, thats a good question!

Umm, i know it's probably hit and miss but the carb on my car still has a 6v choke, so i'm guessing its the orig 6v engine with orig flywheel.
possibly 🤪
It May Never End

h fractals - an ever changing lifestyle

7,671 posts · joined Feb 2005 ·

#742431
yup sounds like a dilemma you have there..
always more to it when changing thems things..
fractal geometry; the inner most limits of mind altering abuse

Fantasy http://seventhchronicle.com

Z = Z2 + C1/r = 1/0 = infinity

Barrels www.barrelman.com.au

VW Workshop - aircooledgarage.com.au
allcooled.com.au

Anthiron The Baja Rejuvenation Begins

4,936 posts · joined Oct 2003 ·

#742453
i ran a 6v starter for years with a 6v flywheel running on 12 v and never had an issue. maybe i was just lucky.
62/60 model bug eye baja bug, (Full Build in Progress)
1974 Chevrolet Luv
1970 MK2 Ford Cortina GT
1979 Yamaha RX125 Two Stroke tracker project.
2004 Harley Davidson Sportster XL Custom

Matt Ryan Fahrvergnugen

890 posts · joined Jan 2006 ·

#742486
djnee wrote:Ok,
Just changed my starter motor bush but my car still doesn't start first turn of the key (i got the 6v starter in 12v car grating noise)
i've read a few times about replacing the VW solenoid with a pre-EH Holden one, but i am curious as to what difference it makes as all a solenoid does is throw the pinion at the flywheel ain't it? Does it do it slower or something?

There is a helix cut into the shaft so that, as the pinion moves forward it will rotate.(this happens in a split second, before the starter motor itself begins to turn) The harder you throw the pinion along the shaft, the faster it will be rotating when it hits the ring gear. A 6volt solenoid running at 12 volts will throw the pinion harder, the pinion hits the ring gear rotating too fast and eventually chews the teeth on the ring gear, the pinion gear trying to mesh with a chewed ring gear is what makes that horrible noise. Once the pinion has meshed properly with the ring gear, then the starter motor begins to turn.(it all happens in milliseconds)

Even if you put the pre Eh solenoid on, the ring gear damage is already done. You will probably still need to rotate your flywheel so that the pinion will now be meshing on a good undamaged section of ring gear teeth. Or..... you can replace the flywheel completely.

As Dave said, you also need to know what flywheel you have. Take the starter motor out then, through the starter hole in bell housing you will see a section of ring gear. Mark a tooth with some white out or a dab of paint or a centre punch etc. Then use a screwdriver jammed in the teeth to slowly rotate the engine through 360 degrees and count the number of teeth as you go. 6 and 12 volt have a different number of teeth, can't remember how many for each off hand but will get back to you with it.

Regards,

Matt.


http://portvwforum.freeforums.org

djnee Officially Full-On Dubber

341 posts · joined Mar 2009 ·

#742492
Thanks Matt, that all makes sense to me now!

OK, firstly....is this the right part? This is 12v which is right yeah?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/holden-grey-motor-starter-motor-fx-fj-fe-fc-fb-ek-ej-eh_W0QQitemZ230388868384QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Car_Parts_Accessories?hash=item35a43f2520

And im guessing i just take the solenoid off the side and bolt it onto my vw one? Is there any machining involved or does it go straight on?

Thanks for your ongoing help! Really want to sort this once and for all!
It May Never End

Matt Ryan Fahrvergnugen

890 posts · joined Jan 2006 ·

#742561
djnee wrote:Thanks Matt, that all makes sense to me now!

OK, firstly....is this the right part? This is 12v which is right yeah?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/holden-grey-motor-starter-motor-fx-fj-fe-fc-fb-ek-ej-eh_W0QQitemZ230388868384QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Car_Parts_Accessories?hash=item35a43f2520

And im guessing i just take the solenoid off the side and bolt it onto my vw one? Is there any machining involved or does it go straight on?

Thanks for your ongoing help! Really want to sort this once and for all!
Yep,

It's a straight swap, no machining. Make sure you extend the solenoid shaft and lube it with some anti seize. you may have to put 12 volts into it to get it to extend.

By the way 6 volt ring gear is 109 teeth and 12 volt is 130. When you're counting them you should see how badly worn the teeth are. make sure you have a 6 volt flywheel before spending any money on ebay.

Don't forget you still may end up having to drop the engine, remove the flywheel, rotate it 90 degrees and bolt it back on, if the teeth are badly worn.

Regards,

Matt.


http://portvwforum.freeforums.org

68AutoBug Beetle Restorer - Experience over 138\% - YIKES --

11,654 posts · joined Aug 2002 ·

#742564
Anthiron wrote:i ran a 6v starter for years with a 6v flywheel running on 12 v and never had an issue. maybe i was just lucky.
I believe if the engine starts first kick every time...

You won't have any problems...

but if Your engine needs to be turning over and over
it will wear the teeth out...

needs a tuned engine with plenty of spark..

LEE
- Helping keep Air Cooled VWs on the road - location: SCONE in the Upper Hunter Valley - Northern NSW 320 kms NNW of SYDNEY---